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Post by trollbro on Feb 8, 2018 18:02:29 GMT
I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that you stick with one faction. This game has so much depth that it takes quite a while to really get the fundamentals down. I myself have made huge advances in my own ability by forcing myself to stick with one list. If you care about getting better then I suggest you pick one thing and stick with it until you know your list and warcaster inside out.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Feb 8, 2018 18:31:31 GMT
To kinda bounce off this idea from TrollBro, sticking to one faction will force you to try out models and combinations outside of your comfort zone. Many people get caught up in the easy or comfortable models that are just good and don't require a lot of thought to use properly, but once you are burned out on these ideas, concepts and combinations, try something different. Themes make this hard, unless you don't worry about them much.
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 9, 2018 3:29:05 GMT
Yeah, Themes can make that hard, but switching Themes may do the same thing as changing Faction, depending on what you changing from and to, and usually cheaper to boot.
But let's face it, sometimes you just need to have a bit of a breather to cleanse the palate. Sometimes that's changing Factions, sometimes that's stepping away from the hobby. I have noticed that when I'm having trouble on something, just stepping away from it for a day or two is enough for me to overcome it.
Factions are a bit different, of course, due to the level of dedication a modeled faction takes. If you aren't done with the game and still want to play it, but a little tired of the same old, having a second faction to clear your game palate may be the thing, especially if none of your main Faction's Warcasters are up to the task of giving you that cleansing.
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Post by ankiseth on Feb 9, 2018 6:27:08 GMT
I started with Khador and expanded into Circle before finding my true love Gators. It really opened up the game for me to have a totally different play style available. I never really appreciated how order of activations works with animi or what it really means to leave too much Fury on the board or how powerful out-of-activation movement was or or or until I played Circle.
Beyond Fury mechanics, playing Skorne will probably help you build better tuition for working with purely melee models.
But, even aside from the learning value of having a side-faction, it’s also just invigorating to have something fresh to swap over to if Cygnar ever feels stale. At the very least, Skorne will almost definitely have a CID cycle / model release before Cygnar next does. It’ll be good to have something new to think about even if you aren’t planning to buy everything that comes out new.
Playing more than one faction is expensive, no doubt about that, but if you can afford it I think it’s great for overall enjoyment of the game.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Feb 9, 2018 14:32:24 GMT
Unrelated, but thanks for that avatar. Now I have to go play Person of Lordly Caliber again...
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Feb 9, 2018 15:52:38 GMT
My suggestion on whether to stick with one faction or branch out is simple: How often do you play ? I once owned 8 factions ; 5 full and 3 with at least 1-3 lists. At the point that took off i was playing at least two days a week, occasionally 3. Over time it began to be more like once a week. Then once every other week. It's now "when i feel like it", which ebbs and flows from weekly to semi quarterly, heh! The point is: it made no sense any longer for me to own 8 factions. I couldn't remember all the rules (even without CID), and most of the non-full lists hadn't seen air time in months - in one case at least a year. I looked at how much i spent (in fairness its not as much as one might think ; i got a lot of these faction on Comp as a volunteer through the years, and a decent portion more on the secondhand trade market - despite those facts, its still quite a lot of actual investment in terms of cash), and thought of all the better places and ways that money could go. That was the moment where I decided to downsize into just Mercs as they were the most interesting thing to me (and as much as i'll always have a soft spot for Cygnar, after literally playing them since Escalation, i needed a break). I decided that i would only expand my collection insofar as it was stuff i could play with the merc casters i own and like, or expansions of merc stuff i found interesting. CG isn't quite that exactly, but its close enough i can fool myself into thinking it should be okay. There was also a healthy amount of "JFC, this is hording like" - i had an entire small walk in closet of my house that was my "gaming" closet, and most of it hadn't seen the light of day in 6+ months (i am a neat freak, fwiw). So for me it came down to fulfillment output was not living up to the time, money, environmental tidiness requirements in terms of fulfillment of owning another faction. I would look at it this way: does the frequency with which you play (or paint, if you enjoy that) justify the investment ? If so, go for it. If not, well, there you go.
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Post by sludgeogre on Feb 9, 2018 17:37:21 GMT
I would look at it this way: does the frequency with which you play (or paint, if you enjoy that) justify the investment ? If so, go for it. If not, well, there you go. This is certainly a consideration I have made. I play at least 2 times a week, usually 3, and I go to tournaments at least once a month. I know that 2 factions is as much as I'm able to handle and if I want to ever pick up another one I need to sell one of the ones I own. I enjoy painting up to a point, but I'm not super great at it and I enjoy playing with painted models more than I enjoy actually painting them. The army I'm buying is fully painted and I plan on adding pieces here and there when I feel like painting them up.
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Post by ankiseth on Feb 9, 2018 17:38:11 GMT
Unrelated, but thanks for that avatar. Now I have to go play Person of Lordly Caliber again... glad to be of service!
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Feb 9, 2018 19:07:21 GMT
I would look at it this way: does the frequency with which you play (or paint, if you enjoy that) justify the investment ? If so, go for it. If not, well, there you go. This is certainly a consideration I have made. I play at least 2 times a week, usually 3, and I go to tournaments at least once a month. I know that 2 factions is as much as I'm able to handle and if I want to ever pick up another one I need to sell one of the ones I own. I enjoy painting up to a point, but I'm not super great at it and I enjoy playing with painted models more than I enjoy actually painting them. The army I'm buying is fully painted and I plan on adding pieces here and there when I feel like painting them up. I'm with you on the painting thing. I have love hate relationship with it: i like the final product, and when i put my mind to it i'm a pretty decent painter all told capable of better than table top quality, though certainly not showcase quality. THe problem is i paint slower than glaciers evolve. I put probably 30 hours into my Savio, and while i use him with Ossrum, 30 hours is not worth it on a single model that sees SOME use with ONE caster, when i'm already playing 0-4 days a month. If you're playing that much, i would say that you'll get the mileage out of the second faction. The question then comes down to if you can financially swing it (i mean nothing by that, but i know very well off gamers and gamers that probably need to rethink their financial priorities before buying another army), and if, game wise, you can handle the mastery of two factions to whatever degree you choose to (playing that much i assume you are not a casual gamer by nature so mastery, and not fun alone, is at least a part of your goals). So you'll definitely get the mileage. If you can definitively say "this would come from fun money and it would not be fiscally irresponsible of me to spend this money on this army", and you can say that with your commitment to the game adn competition that putting in the time to master a second faction to the degree that you want to will increase your enjoyment of the game, then i basically see no reason why you shouldn't move forward. The sole reason would be if you have your eye on becoming a national and international level threat, concentrating on a single faction can be easier in the medium term, though certainly branching out will make you a more variable threat, but frankly, those are 3rd echelon concerns. Payoff in game time, Finances, willingness to actually put the new shiny on the table instead of your old fav (something i struggled with) are the first order concerns. Good luck with your decision!
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 9, 2018 20:21:13 GMT
No matter what plastyle you think you'll find in a second faction, you can still copy it to some extent in your main faction. There is almost nothing that Cygnar doesn't offer. Well, there might be a whole bunch of things, nobody runs. But that doesn't mean you can't run it.
Thats the reason why I stick to my main faction. Simple as is.
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Post by sludgeogre on Feb 9, 2018 20:23:27 GMT
I'm a chemical engineer without kids and I have no plan on ever having them, so I have a pretty significant fun money fund that I used to spend on audio equipment. Now that I have a finished theater, that money is going towards Warmachine.
I have also found that there are some nerds that really shouldn't be spending their money on this hobby, but fortunately I have the resources to not worry about this kind of thing.
It's interesting the wide range of feedback I've gotten on this topic, and I feel like a lot of the people who resist another faction are telling themselves that because they don't want to blow a bunch of money on another one. I totally get that and people should tell themselves whatever they have to in order to keep the money they need in their pocket and not be irresponsible.
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Luebbi
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 54
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Post by Luebbi on Feb 10, 2018 11:30:23 GMT
I got into Skorne from Cygnar back in MK2, and it really helped me understand strengths and weaknesses of my main faction more. For example, Cygnar has a far easier time into high DEF values than other factions, while having trouble with high armor values. I used to complain about the latter, while not appreciating the former. Skorne used to be the exact opposite, and picking the faction up in turn helped me appreciate the strengths of Cygnar, which I until then had simply taken for granted, a lot more.
You also develop an eye for the subtleties of Hordes that are harder to get when focusing on Warmachine. For example, the threat ranges of beasts can be enormous, but they can't force out of their warlocks control range. Staying 20" away from Molik Karn, while his Fury 6 Warlock is staying far behind him is not neccessary. Recognizing these situations on the table will be easier when you are used to a Hordes Faction.
That said, if the offered Skorne lot is primarily comprised of an MK2-based collection, be aware that you might have sub-par lists or at least lists that don't really show you Skornes current biggest strenghts. I think the faction is one of those that did a complete 180 in the faction change. I have a fairly large painted Mk2 collection, but feel like playing Skorne on a halfway serious level would mean a lot of additional purchases, while things that used to be strong (all the cataphract units, Nihilators, lots of Elephants) have fallen out of favor. Double battle engines, Venator Reivers and Ferox didn't see a lot of tabletime in MK2 and now feel like must-haves.
EDIT: small but (to me) amusing anecdote: back when I got my Skorne, I played into a buddies list that consisted of a ton of stealth Kayazy and a Conquest, first with Cygnar, then with Skorne. With Cygnar, I removed the Kayazy without a second thought, but had trouble against the Conquest. With Skorne, the Conquest died trivially to an enraged Bronzeback, but all my other stuff got tied up by those pesky Kayazy. Those two games really made me see two sides of the same coin.
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Post by sludgeogre on Feb 10, 2018 18:50:16 GMT
I got into Skorne from Cygnar back in MK2, and it really helped me understand strengths and weaknesses of my main faction more. For example, Cygnar has a far easier time into high DEF values than other factions, while having trouble with high armor values. I used to complain about the latter, while not appreciating the former. Skorne used to be the exact opposite, and picking the faction up in turn helped me appreciate the strengths of Cygnar, which I until then had simply taken for granted, a lot more. You also develop an eye for the subtleties of Hordes that are harder to get when focusing on Warmachine. For example, the threat ranges of beasts can be enormous, but they can't force out of their warlocks control range. Staying 20" away from Molik Karn, while his Fury 6 Warlock is staying far behind him is not neccessary. Recognizing these situations on the table will be easier when you are used to a Hordes Faction. That said, if the offered Skorne lot is primarily comprised of an MK2-based collection, be aware that you might have sub-par lists or at least lists that don't really show you Skornes current biggest strenghts. I think the faction is one of those that did a complete 180 in the faction change. I have a fairly large painted Mk2 collection, but feel like playing Skorne on a halfway serious level would mean a lot of additional purchases, while things that used to be strong (all the cataphract units, Nihilators, lots of Elephants) have fallen out of favor. Double battle engines, Venator Reivers and Ferox didn't see a lot of tabletime in MK2 and now feel like must-haves. EDIT: small but (to me) amusing anecdote: back when I got my Skorne, I played into a buddies list that consisted of a ton of stealth Kayazy and a Conquest, first with Cygnar, then with Skorne. With Cygnar, I removed the Kayazy without a second thought, but had trouble against the Conquest. With Skorne, the Conquest died trivially to an enraged Bronzeback, but all my other stuff got tied up by those pesky Kayazy. Those two games really made me see two sides of the same coin. Nice! Thanks for the perspective! I played Skorne a bunch of times with a guy that recently moved away so I know what you're talking about with the beast and DEF stuff, but I think you're spot on about control ranges and being able to notice what the Hordes player is doing more by learning Hordes yourself intimately. The collection I'm getting has a lot of the old stuff, but also has 2 Ferox units, 1 Swordsmen unit, a derp turtle, all of the casters except Jalaam, and at least one of all of the beasts, including 3 archidons and 2 of each sentry. I have already put together some lists based on suggestions from competitive players and lists that are out there right now. I'm really excited to play Makeda1 Masters of War and Rasheth, but I know I will need to pick up a second Derp turtle for that, which I'm fine with.
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Luebbi
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 54
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Post by Luebbi on Feb 10, 2018 19:37:55 GMT
Sounds like a good amount of stuff, and also like you made up your mind. Go for it! Skorne is a cool faction and very different in play style from Cygnar
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Post by sludgeogre on Feb 14, 2018 16:47:17 GMT
Picked up the lot and all I need is a couple hundred bucks in other models to run any tournament quality list. Second derp, a few drakes, and a couple solos and I'm good to go.
Played a few games already with Makeda1 in Masters of War and it's a ton of fun. Throwing weapon masters in people's faces is quite a lot of fun.
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