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Post by Ajax on Jan 15, 2018 23:01:59 GMT
You know, now that the Basher is out, it might be worth proxying/practicing the swap of one of your maulers with 2 Bashers. Like you said, the addition of the Chiller Animus to your roster is a mat fix, and gives you two missiles that can still do reasonable damage at mat 8 pow 16 with primal that won't hurt to throw away. Not to mention the beat back/crit staggers on the counter charges. Just food for thought.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 16, 2018 4:21:06 GMT
Beat back is only during combat action, so not on the counter-charge generally, but other than that, it could be interesting. It does make the one Mauler a linchpin, though, but primal on Rok would reduce that if you have lights to use it on... I don't know enough to form an opinion without trying both. I'd be very nervous about getting baited into counter-charging the Mauler to its doom.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jan 16, 2018 5:52:58 GMT
Any ideas about the eborka list banky played with double ebdt without a mauler. It seems to be able to play into armor really well. I am not sure why he did not play a mauler.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 16, 2018 6:17:56 GMT
Elwinar: I really like your list and have made most likely same but not tested it yet because I don't like to proxy. But good to hear it will be solid list. Only change I would make is to take EDBT in stead of second mauler, because pathfinder is really good ability to have and especially on counter charge (so you can charge over walls). And you have backup primal, so losing rage is not that critical.
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Post by elwinar on Jan 16, 2018 8:28:08 GMT
I'm not fond of losing Rage even with Primal in backup. The consequence of Primal is really hard, especially given that we don't have many ways to protect our beasts once the trades starts. It might not be a problem either, depending on the match, but generally speaking I consider Primal as a tool to overcome the high DEF of most casters.
I'm fact, I've already tried the Basher. Hunter's Mark is a good synergy, as you can have two boosted attack rolls to ensure to trigger stagger on a target. I've pinned down an Animantarax that way.
I'm not fan of the Earthborn because of the lack of punch, and the fact that we don't really need his animus while the H³ is alive. Now, it can make some matchups a bit easier, like most Storm Divisions.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2018 10:00:07 GMT
Here is the list i played yesterday.
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Battle Group: I went with a smallish BG to get 3 free things. Borka has problems handling lots of beasts due to low Fury and small control. Counter charge is fun, but i do not think it is worth building the list around that. The best counter charger is Borka since he has knock down on his mount anyway. I went with Rök since he is a good beat stick, and Stumbling Drunk is annoying. The Pyre is there to maximize Borkas output (and since he is there i play double FEs that i can light up). The EBDT Is a fast beast with pathfinder. It it annoying to kill, has an animus that is some times very good and it can be used to body block Rök.
Units: Double bears, to take advantage of concealment if applicable, and wreck havoc in general. Double FEs to take advantage of the Pyre troll already in the list. Raiders to be a fast unit to jam with the feat. They will not do much work, but they can not be ignored and are excellent road blocks with the feat.
Solos: Runebearer to get extended control, and possibly an extra Fury. Fell caller because... Valka because he is the most high value model i can get for free. Generally he doesnt make the cut, since i take a free Skaldi instead, but no champions means hes in. He is a pretty good model, it is just that he does not solve any specific problem and therefore i often leave him out.
Borka: The idea is that Borka is a free heavy and a damned good one. His feat is pretty good but other than that he does almost nothing for his army. Concealment and Counter Charge are both pretty weak, and the Frost Hammer spell is laugable at Fury 5. He DOES kick ass though. POW 19 without trying, and he is very hard to kill, so you do not need to camp more than 0-2. I wanted to play a list where Borka did a lot of work and played really aggressively.
Game 1 - Anamag (CID) He had a BB and Golab in the battle group. He had Chosen, Warmongers and the carrion birds. Notably he had no hellmouths. We played Breakdown and i got to go first (yes!!!)
I ran up far, but outside threats in general. He walked up his BB (sort of a trap. i wanted him to not run, so i gave him some shooting targets. Having the BB far back seemed good for me) and shot at raiders, all of whom survived due to tough and failed dice on blasts (lol). His chosen got +2 ARM and jammed a bear (i did not ambush) and some raiders. His Carrion birds tried to screen the warmongers from my other bears and FEs.
I run my EBDT to jam 2 Chosen and to block the BB from coming in to scenario. I kill maybe 2 chosen between a bear and some FEs and Raiders. On the other flank i spray down some carrions and have the bears walk up and kill some warmongers. Borka moves up mid field and feats. He threatens a large part of the opponents square zone as well as the BB. Rök is nearby to threaten the BB. He kills the EBDT with the BB but does basically nothing else. His warmongers roll abysmally and i tough a bear to boot. Nothing is made stationary, but he cant score, and i even score my zone with my Pyre.
I kill the BB and all but one chosen. I kill some more warmongers and birds. I score my zone and the left circle. Borka went in on the BB to finish it off after Rök tapped it a bit, so borka is almost in his square zone to the left.he has nothing that can threaten me there though. Valka charged Golab and did work on him. He clears out the right zone finally with his warmongers and 2 remaining birds. He also kills the Pyre with Golab, and he contests my square. I think i score the left zone on his turn though.
Borka charges in against his remaining warmongers, but only kills 2. He repositions back and takes a free strike (triggering +2 ARM) I am camping 2. The rest of my stuff starts running towards the right side of teh board since the left is crushed. 3 Kriels charge Golab, but they all miss. He has to kill me, cause he cant contest. I am low on time, but he goes for the kill. Golab dies to free strikes but Anamag gets in on Borka with feat. He gets me to 15 boxes after transfers. He concedes.
This is probably not the best match up. Stealth does very little, and the feat is not super good either. Attrition was very favorable for me in the end though. The work, and the personal threat Borka has really matters. He had to run and hide from me the whole game basically. The list felt both fun and strong.
Game 2 - Venethrax (Infernal Machines) The only thing that didnt go my way here was that i did not get to go first. Otherwise this is a match up that can be summarized as "playing in the sprinkler". I even jammed with some Raiders on turn 1, and then saved the feat for turn 2 when it was truly back breaking. I won on scenario and there was never really any question to the outcome. I do not think that my opponent could have avoided the slaughter. This game i ambushed the bears, and that gave me huge freedom to what zone i would put pressure on. It was amazing too. Oh and we had a big forest in the middle so i could have my kriel stone far up at no risk, and Borka could always threaten to walk 7" through the forest to get at what ever part of the army i wanted dead. Reposition 3" when you can walk back in a forest is amazing, especially when said forest is dead center and the opponent has no pathfinder in the list.
The list felt SUPER powerful, and dice helped me this time as well.
Summary Borka 2 is COMPLETELY different in the new SotN compared to the PoD i played pre CID. Not only did he get better personally, but he synergizes very well with the NK stuff. +2 STR is a big deal. Nothing is safe from him, and he is MUCH harder to kill now. It is really fun to play a caster that does work himself. Sure, hes not Butcher 3 who can kill any number of heavies if he gets to them, but he can kill any caster by himself, and a heavy will have to be very well buffed to not fold to Borka. This makes for a very different game dynamic. I had effectively 3 quality heavies backed up by a full unit and 4 small quality units. This is more "stuff" than you usually have.
Madrak 2 can potentially do a lot of damage, but he is a support caster at heart. Borka is not. He is a frigging beast and is really fun to play. The list is way faster than what we have become used to during the last year of "PoD or bust". I had a lot of fun for sure! I truly recommend every one to give him a spin. I preferred the small BG since that allowed me to not care about fury management or control area very much and just focus on personal mayhem. The first game i played really slow for some reason, and i see a lot of potential for better play. Time for practice!
PS. Borka 1 in SotN also seems very interesting. I suspect that he too got a massive buff by the theme and how it works with his kit, even if he personally did not change a lot...
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 16, 2018 10:34:42 GMT
Trollock: Good writeup and I totally agree you. But problem for me is, that I can't pair Borka and Borka to next tournament, cos they play nearly the same list.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2018 11:47:23 GMT
Trollock: Good writeup and I totally agree you. But problem for me is, that I can't pair Borka and Borka to next tournament, cos they play nearly the same list. Not with THAT attitude you cant | Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28] |
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[/b] [*]Rok [19][*]Troll Axer [10][/ul]Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]Swamp Gobber Chef [1]Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes ( max) [9]
[*]Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]Northkin Fire Eaters [7]Northkin Fire Eaters [7]Trollkin Champions (max) [16][/font]][/b] [*]Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3][/ul][/td][td]Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27][/b] [*]Pyre Troll [8][*]Rok [19][*]Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)][/ul]Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes ( max) [9]
[*]Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]Northkin Fire Eaters [7]Northkin Fire Eaters [7]Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
[/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] It will be fun! Trust me
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jan 16, 2018 12:21:02 GMT
Was at the Conquest event in Norway and I really liked Mats' list:
Borka2 (SotN) - Runebearer - Mauler - Earthborn - Pyre Min Stone + Northkin Elder Max Bears x2 Fire Eaters x2 Max Champions + Skaldi Fell Caller Hero Valka Gobber Chef
Also, Trollock did you consider a Glacier King with Borka 1? Had it recommended to me as he's hard for a lot of factions to deal with when they can't debuff him. See Cryx!
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Post by mydnight on Jan 16, 2018 12:35:03 GMT
Does the storm troll still have a place in our beast heavy lists? I am guessing Borka just prefers Pyres due to the Fire eaters synergy.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2018 12:39:54 GMT
Also, Trollock did you consider a Glacier King with Borka 1? Had it recommended to me as he's hard for a lot of factions to deal with when they can't debuff him. See Cryx!
I did not. I pulled the list out of my ass tbh Sounds very possible. I guess it may interfere with champions who were mainly included to receive the DEF buff.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2018 12:45:29 GMT
Does the storm troll still have a place in our beast heavy lists? I am guessing Borka just prefers Pyres due to the Fire eaters synergy. In my lists i had the Pyre because i wanted Borka to do work in melee, and since i had a Pyre in the list, i added double Fire Eaters. I have no great love of the Storm troll, and perhaps i dismiss it out of hand too often. Electroleap on Borka sound perfectly fine. It does not precisely prevent you from playing FEs, but having a damage buff for Borka AND lighting up the FEs feels too tempting to me. I like the Storm troll better when you have a huge base that can expect to survive some infantry charges. Having it punch your King or Battle Engine in the back with 4 e-leap attacks sounds like a fun plan if you have no good target for the gun. Not sure if that happens on the table too often though. Sort of like Horgle 2 punching his own king to make it explode all over the enemy
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 16, 2018 12:57:57 GMT
Trollock: I like def15 raiders as first wave too much to pass them and HHH is not released yet. Otherwise I could play Borka1 above and elwinar's Borka2 Trollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28]
- Pyre Troll [8]
- Rok [19]
- Troll Axer [10]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Feralgeist [2]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Trollkin Champions (max) [16]
- Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)]
- Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3]
| Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm of the North
(Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [14]
- Pyre Troll [8]
- Rok [19]
- Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Fire Eaters [7]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
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EDIT: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G07fm0h6Gj20ki-iZj5iTbKcCTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North (Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28] - Glacier King [35] - Troll Axer [10] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] Might actually be quite nice list
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Post by danks on Jan 16, 2018 15:51:06 GMT
I've been playing the same borka2 list with the minor changes of lanyssa/mauler rather than Rok. Likely not ideal, but I've found her to be very beneficial in extending the threat ranges and with prowl/drifts she can be fairly aggressive.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jan 16, 2018 15:53:54 GMT
i would like to agree with trollock but i see no reason why i should pick eborka if i wanna play Sotn instead of a madrak or grissel2. Like mentioned eborka is a really nice countercharging beast but does not support his army and this is the reason i would play him in Pod. The good eborka results were played in POD and you got another good beast for free in form of eborka. In therory bashers as countercharger could be a nice idea for crit fishing. I am not quiet sure how a countercharged crit stagger would interact with a charge attack of your opponent.
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