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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 11, 2018 12:18:08 GMT
Mist likely, because legion can't have nice things. This spell will allow her to play very aggressively, change to once a turn and, well, should she even bother? There's having nice things and then there is having a free upkeep that gives you 50-100 more boxes of health. In a time where there's hitfixers aplenty, it's also a lovely way to get around a gargs armour... Should abby play aggressively forward. If she doesn't well, than the onetime thing doesn't really make too much of a difference?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 11, 2018 12:31:46 GMT
There's having nice things and then there is having a free upkeep that gives you 50-100 more boxes of health. In a time where there's hitfixers aplenty, it's also a lovely way to get around a gargs armour... Should abby play aggressively forward. If she doesn't well, than the onetime thing doesn't really make too much of a difference? Abby will be DEF 17 against ranged attacks and against melee made by living models. She's ARM 15 or ARM 17 if the Gargantuan in question happens to be a Blightbringer. The balancing factor for casters is that they can be assassinated, which Absylonia can't be when she has unlimited transfers. Even if you manage to one round the Gargantuan through her, you have likely expended your whole army to do so and she has a 10.5"/12.5" Flying threat range to probably assassinate as well. Even if she doesn't, she just moves Playing God to something else and does it again.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 11, 2018 13:04:44 GMT
As I don't play Legion, here is an unsolicited list you did not ask for
Anamag *28 - Ammok +5 - Golab +17 - Blightbringer +35
War Chief (0) Spell Martyr +1
Rotwings +12 Warmongers +13 - Rotteneye (0) Chosen of Everblight +20
With Vet Leader, Paralysing Gaze and Sitting Vulture, you probably wont need to cast Carnage unless you are facing very high def stuff, leaving Anamag to Gallows or Hexblast. It should be pretty tanky with the Blightbringer animus and +2 arm on one unit, especially now warmongers have unyielding, and can hit like an absolute ton of bricks between all the various buffs.
Ideally I would have wanted 2 min units of Rotwings, one to run in and provide -1 def and Dark Shroud, and the other to come in with Finisher if something did not die, but I could not make the points work.
Would any Legion players consider giving something like this a go?
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Post by Cryptix on Jan 11, 2018 14:12:56 GMT
I'm actually glad Legion got some unrestricted damage buffs for once - sure, it might seem a bit overtuned looking at Ogrun but then remember that CotD and RoW exist...
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 11, 2018 14:22:47 GMT
I'm actually glad Legion got some unrestricted damage buffs for once - sure, it might seem a bit overtuned looking at Ogrun but then remember that CotD and RoW exist... Yeah but the issue is, if the ogrun theme becomes this mat, arm, damage fixing monstrosity than you will literally only ever see oracles paired with Ogrun. I think that we need to take a good, long, look at the potential of buffing going on here. 13 point infantry that hit at P+S 20, Mat 10(12 with UA) is kind of silly when you think about it. I expect a few negative tweaks to Chosen's durability and some reduction the power of the new caster.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 11, 2018 14:30:48 GMT
I'm actually glad Legion got some unrestricted damage buffs for once - sure, it might seem a bit overtuned looking at Ogrun but then remember that CotD and RoW exist... Yeah but the issue is, if the ogrun theme becomes this mat, arm, damage fixing monstrosity than you will literally only ever see oracles paired with Ogrun. I think that we need to take a good, long, look at the potential of buffing going on here. 13 point infantry that hit at P+S 20, Mat 10(12 with UA) is kind of silly when you think about it. I expect a few negative tweaks to Chosen's durability and some reduction the power of the new caster. The best are the Warspears, against their Prey they can get a rat 11 pow 21 Assault Shot, and a mat 14 pow 21 Charge Attack
Also none of those buffs require rolling any dice to achieve, just correct positioning. Oh! and also Anamag can strip defensive upkeeps...
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jan 11, 2018 14:55:01 GMT
Infantry generally has a lot of stat and ability buffs in every faction, way more than heavies do. It's sort a must have at this point, you need at least a damage and hit buffs (or CMA) a pathfinder and a protective mechanic for your infantry list to work.
Chosens are the tricky ones. From experience of playing against Doomie3's feat that d3 heal on hit provides way more survivability than just flat arm increase because it turns all negative spike rolls into pure healing. It will be less obnoxious on only 8 box models, but tough is there to fix that. Since they don't have lance rule (which is created to balance cavalry bonuses) I don't see a reason to not start every single ogrun list with 2x chosen, but hey, PP apparently knows better.
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Post by copperflame on Jan 11, 2018 15:30:45 GMT
I am a Legion player so I won't comment on anything here. But it is nice to see others looking in from the outside and what their impressions are. I completely missed the Playing God clause where it is any transfer and not once per turn.
While this CID has a large string of buffs (centered around Primal Terrors), does anyone see any that fall short of the intent?
What do you think Legion players need to playtest the most? (or top3 - or one that seems OP and one that seems still in need or whatever)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 11, 2018 15:36:04 GMT
I am a Legion player so I won't comment on anything here. But it is nice to see others looking in from the outside and what their impressions are. I completely missed the Playing God clause where it is any transfer and not once per turn. While this CID has a large string of buffs (centered around Primal Terrors), does anyone see any that fall short of the intent? What do you think Legion players need to playtest the most? (or top3 - or one that seems OP and one that seems still in need or whatever) Two things I would like to see tested a lot are
1. Survivability of Chosen when buffed 2. The level of accuracy and damage fixers in Primal Terrors and Anamag in particular
I am undecided whether either is a problem, but they jump out as being potentially too strong
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Post by minmaximus on Jan 11, 2018 17:29:34 GMT
Anamag certainly looks overbearing on paper, engineering some really brutal swings- but she doesn't really boost threat range at all outside of Gallows, so while she's doing a monstrous amount of work in her personal vicinity she might be ok. If anything she might be too durable, because while she's supposed to be a support warlock she's pretty much just as tough as Thagrosh2, which feels kinda wrong. I don't know if Thaggy needs more toughness or what but things feel off here.
The sheer amount of accuracy fixing in Primal Terrors is terrifying and it can bring a lot of damage to the table, but I don't know if this is necessarily a problem. None of it really generates obscene threat ranges really, either- You're talking Rhyas' Dash, Kallus2's feat, Gallows, Hellmouths and Neraph's animus. Definitely some stuff to watch out for but you're mostly looking at a surprisingly honest threat range game from a faction that's usually wanting to charge you from halfway across the world.
Basically there's certainly a lot of stuff to be worried about but I'm not too concerned overall, given this is looking like an army that's likely to give your opponent the first shot. The big things to test I think is the lists survivability (with Anamag and without), the lists anti-DEF skew (is it a problem when the army is missing on snake eyes? How much of it reasonably fits into an army?), and Anamag's survivability (is her statline too high? Is she too difficult to assassinate?).
In addition I think some interactions- Kallus2 w/ Archangel stands out as a big one- could use a look at. I don't necessarily think there's a problem there, but Kallus2's feat means you start talking threat ranges like 15" on Chosen, 13" on Warspears, and 13" on Swordsmen. I'm not gonna say its too much by default, I personally would love to see Archangel+Kallus2 be strong so both see table time because frankly the Archangel is gorgeous, but it should definitely see some testing to make sure its just really good. Battle Lusted Chosen charging things should be good, but not so good that losing the threat range game means you're guaranteed to lose 4 heavies to one unit or something nutty like that.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Jan 11, 2018 18:34:39 GMT
All of you seem to be freaking out about Anamog with the Ogrun, which, frankly is warranted, but what about Anamog in other themes? I'm thinking swordsmen in the dragon theme could be frightening (although I did play against Bethayne in this theme and her feat is brutal with them). Speaking of Bethayne, with all these new toys, she could be a monster (literally and figuratively) in this theme. I think lots of playtesting is for sure needed here.
I come from a Merc perspective mostly and the potential damage output seems silly high here with all the random buffs you can give out and some of the available feats too.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Jan 11, 2018 18:41:35 GMT
Personal preference is heavy in the coming comments...
I am a Protectorate Player who used to play Legion. I started playing Warmahordes in Legion because they had big blighted monsters. When MK3 rolled around... the things I wanted to see fixed were ignored (IE cost of the Carnivore kit war beasts) so I am glad to see that addressed. Legion lost many things I liked (Lilith 2 gun line) and Legion shifted into more of a focus on combined arms and glass cannon(sword/claw) melee units. When the Dust settled after the MK3 drop... the only thing legion was playing seemed to be Fyanna and her flying beasts. Not sure if it's because everything else isn't as good as it's MK2 version or if Fyanna's list was just leaps and bounds ahead.
This CID is focused on ogrun. I am not really a fan of them aesthetically. The new models look to be really good on the table and I feel will overshadow the old ogrun unless ogrun are getting some major change that i missed. Other than the cost of the Carni/Ravi/scythian and some changes to the Gargs, the new stuff seems to completely overshadow the old. From what I am reading here, it could end up just being the definitive pairing with Fyanna.
I know that PP needs to keep making money. This is best achieved by creating new models. I am just worried that this will become a trend... Using CID to test new models over fixing some of the old stuff. With the Exemplar CID on the far horizon I am hoping that they fix Cinerators, Bastions, Harby feat, a few of the jacks could use some changes to create more defined roles for each... I'll be quite sad if they just adjust a point cost or two and then flood the exemplar theme/faction with new models that are just outright better than the old.
Please correct me if I am wrong... I haven't been keeping up with legion as of late.
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Post by ghoulio on Jan 11, 2018 18:51:45 GMT
Personal preference is heavy in the coming comments... I am a Protectorate Player who used to play Legion. I started playing Warmahordes in Legion because they had big blighted monsters. When MK3 rolled around... the things I wanted to see fixed were ignored (IE cost of the Carnivore kit war beasts) so I am glad to see that addressed. Legion lost many things I liked (Lilith 2 gun line) and Legion shifted into more of a focus on combined arms and glass cannon(sword/claw) melee units. When the Dust settled after the MK3 drop... the only thing legion was playing seemed to be Fyanna and her flying beasts. Not sure if it's because everything else isn't as good as it's MK2 version or if Fyanna's list was just leaps and bounds ahead. This CID is focused on ogrun. I am not really a fan of them aesthetically. The new models look to be really good on the table and I feel will overshadow the old ogrun unless ogrun are getting some major change that i missed. Other than the cost of the Carni/Ravi/scythian and some changes to the Gargs, the new stuff seems to completely overshadow the old. From what I am reading here, it could end up just being the definitive pairing with Fyanna. I know that PP needs to keep making money. This is best achieved by creating new models. I am just worried that this will become a trend... Using CID to test new models over fixing some of the old stuff. With the Exemplar CID on the far horizon I am hoping that they fix Cinerators, Bastions, Harby feat, a few of the jacks could use some changes to create more defined roles for each... I'll be quite sad if they just adjust a point cost or two and then flood the exemplar theme/faction with new models that are just outright better than the old. Please correct me if I am wrong... I haven't been keeping up with legion as of late. I hate to burst your bubble here but the reason CID was created was specifically to test new models coming out. They have just been including older models that fit the theme of what they are currently testing, so its basically just a bonus that the old stuff is there in the first place. In regards to the old stuff, have faith. I am a Troll player with Legion as my second faction and I can say they have done a fantastic job with legacy models, and I imagine Legion will continue that trend. Now...only if they would bring in Bethayne to this cycle...
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jan 11, 2018 19:32:47 GMT
All of you seem to be freaking out about Anamog with the Ogrun, which, frankly is warranted, but what about Anamog in other themes? I'm thinking swordsmen in the dragon theme could be frightening (although I did play against Bethayne in this theme and her feat is brutal with them). Speaking of Bethayne, with all these new toys, she could be a monster (literally and figuratively) in this theme. I think lots of playtesting is for sure needed here. I come from a Merc perspective mostly and the potential damage output seems silly high here with all the random buffs you can give out and some of the available feats too. This is infact the exact thing I'm trying to engineer and ask people to help me with. Going outside of PT and outside of themes all together to find the possible problems. Also, Bethayne was never bad. The theme doesn't suddenly make her, as a caster, better. Nothing about Bethayne has changed. It's just getting warmongers into a usable point cost would give her a new reasonable option. Carrion thralls Rotwings also generate more dice on damage rolls so a higher chance for dice spikes but they are still weaker than swordsmen she always had access too. Chosen are just good to great all around.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Jan 11, 2018 20:43:32 GMT
Personal preference is heavy in the coming comments... I am a Protectorate Player who used to play Legion. I started playing Warmahordes in Legion because they had big blighted monsters. When MK3 rolled around... the things I wanted to see fixed were ignored (IE cost of the Carnivore kit war beasts) so I am glad to see that addressed. Legion lost many things I liked (Lilith 2 gun line) and Legion shifted into more of a focus on combined arms and glass cannon(sword/claw) melee units. When the Dust settled after the MK3 drop... the only thing legion was playing seemed to be Fyanna and her flying beasts. Not sure if it's because everything else isn't as good as it's MK2 version or if Fyanna's list was just leaps and bounds ahead. This CID is focused on ogrun. I am not really a fan of them aesthetically. The new models look to be really good on the table and I feel will overshadow the old ogrun unless ogrun are getting some major change that i missed. Other than the cost of the Carni/Ravi/scythian and some changes to the Gargs, the new stuff seems to completely overshadow the old. From what I am reading here, it could end up just being the definitive pairing with Fyanna. I know that PP needs to keep making money. This is best achieved by creating new models. I am just worried that this will become a trend... Using CID to test new models over fixing some of the old stuff. With the Exemplar CID on the far horizon I am hoping that they fix Cinerators, Bastions, Harby feat, a few of the jacks could use some changes to create more defined roles for each... I'll be quite sad if they just adjust a point cost or two and then flood the exemplar theme/faction with new models that are just outright better than the old. Please correct me if I am wrong... I haven't been keeping up with legion as of late. I hate to burst your bubble here but the reason CID was created was specifically to test new models coming out. They have just been including older models that fit the theme of what they are currently testing, so its basically just a bonus that the old stuff is there in the first place. In regards to the old stuff, have faith. I am a Troll player with Legion as my second faction and I can say they have done a fantastic job with legacy models, and I imagine Legion will continue that trend. Now...only if they would bring in Bethayne to this cycle... Yea, I guess I forgot that that was the main reason for CID in the first place. Thanks for the reminder! I just hope that we have continued support for what already exists.
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