mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Dec 21, 2017 17:55:53 GMT
Good points all around. Did they get _any_ attention in the kriel company CID? I don't remember any, but I feel like they deserved it. I'm impressed anybody bothered to try the new burrow rule, my meta doesn't typically have games run long enough for them to get to a useful position that way.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 21, 2017 18:08:51 GMT
I feel like burrowers should just gain back Point blank on the slug guns. It was never broken in Mk2 and I highly doubt it would be broken in Mk3.
I mean lets be honest, what caster would really make burrowers with point blank broken?
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Dec 21, 2017 18:42:25 GMT
They are probably OK with Grim 2. They are absolute trash with every other caster though. Seem decent with Calandra. She likes DEF13 more than other casters, and she can fix their poor rat/mat. DEF13 makes them a bit more valuable than other units with her. Feel free to try, but remember that raiders are in the same price class while you are at it.
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Dec 21, 2017 18:56:25 GMT
I feel like burrowers should just gain back Point blank on the slug guns. It was never broken in Mk2 and I highly doubt it would be broken in Mk3. I mean lets be honest, what caster would really make burrowers with point blank broken? I don't think it's broken, but Madrak2 makes it weapon master. It would be pretty handy for resuming a berserk chain, assuming I was told correctly that the gun can't be used for more than one attack in the turn. That's the wrist interaction I can come up with, and KC would love his damage buff, but he'd hate to use it on such low damage models, except the sons of Bragg, maybe.
|
|
cuberic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
|
Post by cuberic on Dec 21, 2017 23:33:12 GMT
Good points all around. Did they get _any_ attention in the kriel company CID? I don't remember any, but I feel like they deserved it. I'm impressed anybody bothered to try the new burrow rule, my meta doesn't typically have games run long enough for them to get to a useful position that way. Kriel company was more like an after thought during the battle engine CID, because we had no theme for our war wagon.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 22, 2017 4:56:00 GMT
Good points all around. Did they get _any_ attention in the kriel company CID? I don't remember any, but I feel like they deserved it. I'm impressed anybody bothered to try the new burrow rule, my meta doesn't typically have games run long enough for them to get to a useful position that way. Kriel company was more like an after thought during the battle engine CID, because we had no theme for our war wagon. That's just it- I really thought we were getting another crack at it, but KC never did get the same vetting that most other themes have. As for Burrowers, I still think they should just forget about the silly burrowing marker and make the burrowing work more like acrobatics or flight. That would be a lot simpler.
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Dec 22, 2017 9:22:39 GMT
My initial thought for KC lists is to turn to Horgle2
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company
(Horgle 2) Horgle, the Anvil [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Mountain King [36] - Pyre Troll [8] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Thumper/Pummeler Crew [0(5)] Thumper/Pummeler Crew [0(5)] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10]
you could change out one of the Thumper/Pummeler crews for a fell caller to buff a unit/model (maybe raiders).
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Dec 22, 2017 9:34:49 GMT
My initial thought for KC lists is to turn to Horgle2 Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company (Horgle 2) Horgle, the Anvil [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Mountain King [36] - Pyre Troll [8] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Thumper/Pummeler Crew [0(5)] Thumper/Pummeler Crew [0(5)] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] you could change out one of the Thumper/Pummeler crews for a fell caller to buff a unit/model (maybe raiders). A list with no solos seems weak on scenario. Also, the Runebearer to help Horgle to get his upkeeps out in good order is probably a good idea. Id probably ditch the cannons for Runebearer and fell caller. Then id ditch the Pyre for an attachment for the stone and something nifty for 5 points. Maybe a minion option or something. Blythe and Bull are probably not super bad here...
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 22, 2017 12:58:42 GMT
I've said before that always insisting on maximizing freebies is a trap, and that is truer still of Kriel Company. Neither artillery unit is even close to being worth any special effort. There are only three options for free solos. Braylen is FA: C and arguably not worth it unless you have Highwaymen, who are themselves rarely the best of bad options. You really only need the Runebearer and probably a Fell Caller. If you really need the Runebearer and two FC, then you probably have 60 points in units, or close enough that a little wrangling is worth it.
With that in mind, why not a Mountain King? How is that any worse than using one in Band or SOTN, when we do? Granted, Rage only goes on warbeasts. So you need a certain number of them to make it worthwhile, but even MK + 2x Impaler + Whelps is 62 points, which leaves even Calandra 40 points to spend on units and/or War Wagons.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 22, 2017 13:00:26 GMT
So, I think I may have figured out how to make Kriel Company work. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0DiVjoiU04jq6G6G4k0li-ezezj5j5i_Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Winter Troll [8] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Pyg Lookouts (min) [7] The only questions are a) whether it would still be better to go into SOTN for the Hooch Hauler and b) who can actually afford 2x Raiders.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Dec 22, 2017 13:03:14 GMT
Battlecollage says bull and blythe are considered trollbloods in KC. Is that true?
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Dec 22, 2017 13:48:52 GMT
So, I think I may have figured out how to make Kriel Company work. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0DiVjoiU04jq6G6G4k0li-ezezj5j5i_Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Borka 2) Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rok [19] - Winter Troll [8] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Pyg Lookouts (min) [7] The only questions are a) whether it would still be better to go into SOTN for the Hooch Hauler and b) who can actually afford 2x Raiders. So the key to making KC work is to play a SotN list?
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Dec 22, 2017 13:50:29 GMT
Battlecollage says bull and blythe are considered trollbloods in KC. Is that true? Yes. Also. Battlecollage is AWFUL for finding out things like this. War room is better (one would expect it to be pefect, but there are bugs there too), and Conflic Chamber is probably the most accurate.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Dec 22, 2017 14:12:10 GMT
I've said before that always insisting on maximizing freebies is a trap, and that is truer still of Kriel Company. Neither artillery unit is even close to being worth any special effort. There are only three options for free solos. Braylen is FA: C and arguably not worth it unless you have Highwaymen, who are themselves rarely the best of bad options. You really only need the Runebearer and probably a Fell Caller. If you really need the Runebearer and two FC, then you probably have 60 points in units, or close enough that a little wrangling is worth it. With that in mind, why not a Mountain King? How is that any worse than using one in Band or SOTN, when we do? Granted, Rage only goes on warbeasts. So you need a certain number of them to make it worthwhile, but even MK + 2x Impaler + Whelps is 62 points, which leaves even Calandra 40 points to spend on units and/or War Wagons. Though i agree in theory that you should not always try to get your 3 free things, i think you have to compare the list you come up with (some times with less than 3 free solos) with a version where you tweak the list to have 3 free solos (or attachments or weapon crews). You also have to remember that outside trolls, most theme forces get around 15-20 free points without issues. If you get only 10, you will be playing 5-10 points down. Even if the third freebee that you could have gotten would not be worth its points, the freebees you will be facing very well might be. Just because KC doesnt have very good options as freebees doesnt mean that you can just take 2 of them and still be competitive. Quite the opposite actually. I think that a battle group of MK + Bomber is very reasonable in KC. You get a balanced list, that can have some ARM cracking and some infantry removal. The problem though is that you now have a 115-ish point list that has to fight against 120-125-ish point lists. It is sort of like the argument why we no longer play un-themed. Yes, an un-themed list would be very balanced, but it turns out that the free stuff you get from playing in theme just runs you over. Therefore, a list with a big-ish battle group in KC might not be weak because of its composition, but it may be weak because it simply has less "stuff" than the opponent. Do you have any good concrete examples of good theme lists with less than 3 free things? I find that most of those i build feel weak compared to a stremlined version with 3 free things.
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Dec 22, 2017 14:58:02 GMT
If the theme benefits were worth playing 5-10 points down it might be okay to play with 2 free solos instead of 3. But, KC’s perks are absolutely the worst in faction and perhaps the game.
I hate to say it but I have given up. I spent a lot of effort and thought trying to figure out a way to make it work. The closer I got to feeling like I had a good list the closer it got to becoming a far superior SotN list. KC is dead to me. Lol
|
|