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Post by jisidro on Dec 12, 2017 14:20:17 GMT
The feat is pretty clutch there, Combined with vengeance and the fenblade minifeat I think the cygnar player is getting at best 1 turn of shooting before fens get to him. You can even take a chronicler to make them def 14 on the approach which should save a few if the cygnar player doesn't CRA. I think its funny that Madrack 3 seems to play so well into cygnar. Considering how the cygnarians betrayed him and his people back in MK2 lore. Must be the old man grudges coming out. We betrayed no one! we kindly gave you smelly trolls some prime real estate to squat on, how were we to know it was in the path of a Skorne invasion? You are the ones who betrayed us by Gunnbjorn stealing our prototype bazooka
Shots fired!
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 12, 2017 15:18:03 GMT
We betrayed no one! we kindly gave you smelly trolls some prime real estate to squat on, how were we to know it was in the path of a Skorne invasion? You are the ones who betrayed us by Gunnbjorn stealing our prototype bazooka Because the entire reason you put the trolls there in the first place was to try and halt or hinder the skorne. I am starting to think doomshaper has the right Idea when it comes to you dirty Cygnarians. Should of let those Kings eat that train of people I mean one bazooka in exchange for a lot of dead trolls sacrificed for the convenience of the dirty cygnarians seems like the trolls got the short end of the stick
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Post by gdead909 on Dec 12, 2017 18:19:53 GMT
So basically we are saying gunny, grim1, or madrak3. Hmm fair assesment i suppose iys time I either pick up grim1 or dust off gunny
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Post by Trollock on Dec 12, 2017 19:37:50 GMT
So basically we are saying gunny, grim1, or madrak3. Hmm fair assesment i suppose iys time I either pick up grim1 or dust off gunny I have played Grim vs Haley 3. Its not at all what he wants tbh. Go with something else imo.
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Post by gdead909 on Dec 12, 2017 20:35:00 GMT
So basically we are saying gunny, grim1, or madrak3. Hmm fair assesment i suppose iys time I either pick up grim1 or dust off gunny I have played Grim vs Haley 3. Its not at all what he wants tbh. Go with something else imo. So who would you suggest? Just trying to get a warlock and or a build to work towards for this. With madrak1 being the other side of the coin.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 12, 2017 20:36:42 GMT
Because of 9 points of otherwise bad models? Not necessarily bad models. If you are running SoTN and need access to magic weapons then the Shaman is pretty good and if you dont need to get rid of cloyds then Applied Knowledge is decent for sniping out the Spirit on a beast or the Cortex/Movement/Weapon arm on a jack.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 12, 2017 20:37:30 GMT
We betrayed no one! we kindly gave you smelly trolls some prime real estate to squat on, how were we to know it was in the path of a Skorne invasion? You are the ones who betrayed us by Gunnbjorn stealing our prototype bazooka Because the entire reason you put the trolls there in the first place was to try and halt or hinder the skorne. I am starting to think doomshaper has the right Idea when it comes to you dirty Cygnarians. Should of let those Kings eat that train of people I mean one bazooka in exchange for a lot of dead trolls sacrificed for the convenience of the dirty cygnarians seems like the trolls got the short end of the stick Those Kings DID eat that train of people.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 12, 2017 20:40:50 GMT
I have played Grim vs Haley 3. Its not at all what he wants tbh. Go with something else imo. So who would you suggest? Just trying to get a warlock and or a build to work towards for this. With madrak1 being the other side of the coin. Gunny seems way better imo.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 12, 2017 21:10:00 GMT
So who would you suggest? Just trying to get a warlock and or a build to work towards for this. With madrak1 being the other side of the coin. Gunny seems way better imo. Gunny is way better than Grim1 in this matchup although hw does need a way to see through clouds or he just runs into a brick wall.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 12, 2017 23:48:34 GMT
I played Jarl Skuld in Storm and it was at least a borderline NPE for the Haley3 player. The first game he gave up after I ran my champs to engage all of one unit and a unit of bears to engage half the long Gunner unit while the opposite flank of express gunners and support had been crushed by the other bears and Jarl. The next time we played he changed themes, and had the harvest card that says Jarl does not get a feat, but I still pulled off a win by crushing a fork with the bears, then running then around the back of his army to engage Beth and destroy her the next round. He's been scheming ever since to try and come up with an answer for the bears.
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Post by gdead909 on Dec 13, 2017 1:57:04 GMT
And minions changes went live so now we can hand out eyeless sight with mist speakers
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 2:09:49 GMT
And minions changes went live so now we can hand out eyeless sight with mist speakers But no warrior model clause removed from Lynus :,( honestly probably for the best haha
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Post by Trollock on Dec 13, 2017 6:52:51 GMT
Gunny seems way better imo. Gunny is way better than Grim1 in this matchup although hw does need a way to see through clouds or he just runs into a brick wall. Only if your plan is to hang back and shoot. I play Gunnbjorn way more offensive. EBDTs running /trampling to engage is more my thing. One thing that is generally good in the match up is having an army that wants to get up the board. If they want to hang out behind a cloud wall, you can let them if you can score your side of the scenario. This hinges on you being able to kill the echoes, since they contest like bosses, but trolls have good tools for that since we can strip incorporeal with the stone. It is still going to take a lot of effort since they are effectively DEF 18 and all that, but it isnt as hard to do as many other armies will find it. The trencher army is not very good at contesting, so if you can start to score, they can no longer hang out behind the clouds (assuming you can contest their side, at least on their turn)
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 13, 2017 7:44:23 GMT
Gunny is way better than Grim1 in this matchup although hw does need a way to see through clouds or he just runs into a brick wall. Only if your plan is to hang back and shoot. I play Gunnbjorn way more offensive. EBDTs running /trampling to engage is more my thing. One thing that is generally good in the match up is having an army that wants to get up the board. If they want to hang out behind a cloud wall, you can let them if you can score your side of the scenario. This hinges on you being able to kill the echoes, since they contest like bosses, but trolls have good tools for that since we can strip incorporeal with the stone. It is still going to take a lot of effort since they are effectively DEF 18 and all that, but it isnt as hard to do as many other armies will find it. The trencher army is not very good at contesting, so if you can start to score, they can no longer hang out behind the clouds (assuming you can contest their side, at least on their turn) Fair enough, playing Gunny as a pure gunline is definitely not the way to play him as he becomes very one dimensional. I have only played against Haley3 once before with a Gunny list and it was pretty bad not being able to see through clouds. Now that Gunny has an actual feat, running or trampling to engage does seem to be one of the better ways to play into Haley3. I think a case could be made for playing him in SotN with a GK and Bears which can get Stealth within 3" of the GK. They can run far enough to engage a lot of enemy models and gain Unyielding + Stone during the feat turn before going to work the next turn. Now that the Bog Trog Shaman's Guidance works on friendly models a Sniped and Guided GK with +2 Cold Damage and Guided Fire could stand a decent chance of taking out the Echoes or with Explosivo it could start to RFP trenchers or Storm Lances to deny Haley3's recursion game.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Dec 13, 2017 12:45:06 GMT
So last night I played Kolgrima vs Haley3. I had kolgrima, mulg, 2 earthborns, mauler, axer, min stone, runebearer, double whelps, then max brigands with a warlord. He had haleys with a stormclad and 2 grenadiers, max long gunners, max trenchers with ua, two express teams, 2 trench busters, hitch, patrol dog, finn and ragman. (If you aren’t bothered about reading the battle report, you can skip the next 7 paragraphs to get to the analysis.)
He went first, moved up, did a cloud wall. I went second, moved up, did a cloud wall. He used Haley past to cast a chain blast, and killed about 6 farrow. The long gunners walked around the cloud and killed a couple more. (Annoyingly, I later realised the brigand was probably within 3” of mulg, so I could have used arcane vortex.)
In my turn, I walked mulg up to where all of the farrow had been, and sprayed Haley past. Also got lucky and tagged hitch, who passed his tough check, but was then shot by a brigand. Moved kolgrima up and feated, catching everything but a long gunner and Finn, who was running a super wide route into my back lines. On the other side of the board, an earthborn charged a couple of trenchers and the dog, leaving him in that sweet spot of being within 2” of both an obstruction and some water.
On his turn, he kills all of the remaining farrow with trecher melee attacks, and I realise I’ve not put anything else in the zone, so he can score first. He spends a good few minutes working out how to get a dark shrouded grenadier and 2 busters onto he earthborn, with a trencher for flank. He leaves all the table markers there, so when the grenadier attacks, I’m able to spawn a whelp in the most inconvenient place. Doing so means he can only get once buster on him, which probably saves the earthborn from dying.
Back to my turn, mulg walks into melee with Haley Future, Killing her, and leaving him in a great place to arc at Haley past, and a good spot to threaten Haley Prime next turn. It does put him right in the threat of a stormclad, however. I contest the other zone with a mauler, the beat up earthborn kills the stuff around him, and the second earthborn charges the buster who couldn’t charge, killing him. This puts him about 8” from Haley Prime, too.
His turn. He pushes the mauler out of the zone with an express team, and I feel dumb. He charges mulg with the stormclad. The assault shot does a couple of points, allowing mulg to walk around him, into a place where he contests the zone the mauler was in. Mulg gets a crit on the retaliatory strike, slamming the stormclad into my earthborn. My opponent panics, realising there are 2 heavies right next to Haley, so moves her as far as possible to one side, and casts 2 echoes right in front of her to try to block charges.
I spend a few minutes thinking about how to free up mulg (he has grievous wounds on him, so it’s a disaster if a couple of trenchers take out an aspect with free strikes). I then realise the Haley pod is all within 15” of kolgrima, so I can just walk up and spray. If I get the crit on Haley Prime, the earthborn can walk up and kill her. First spray hits but no crit. Second spray hits and gets the crit. I decide to spray again, and manage to kill her.
So, success! However, if I hadn’t been so lucky in getting the crit on mulg’s retaliatory strike, things might have been very different.
The matchup does seem good for kolgrima. Perhaps not hugely favourable, but definitely playable. The feat is, unsurprisingly, phenomenal. Combined with arcane vortex and owl’s wisdom, you can limit the Haley player to just getting trencher melee attacks for a turn.
Mulg’s magic club, plus the sprays, are good at killing echoes. If the Haley player has to cast an echo, they will probably not want to feat that turn, as the new echo can’t activate. And if they do feat, they’ve lost a lot of the utility.
The sprays are also really good at scalpeling out some of the key support pieces. Ragman, hitch etc can die quite easily to the spray. One thing I’m going to change about the list is to swap a pack of whelps for a shaman, so I can target him with the sprays to maximise the number of enemy models hit.
The cloud wall is good at keeping kolgrima safe. I found I was very fury strapped though- if you do a spray and boost a hit and damage roll on an echo, you have 4 fury left (assuming you use harmonious exaltation). That’s a single cloud and a 2 camp. Not ideal.
One thing to bear in mind is that the Haleys have true sight. Haley Future can shoot 3 times at pow13, which can be threatening to kolgrima (it’s only rat 5 though, so ideally kolgrima would have to be knocked down first).
Overall though, this seems like a good drop for the troll player. Plus, it seems like a good drop into most of cygnar.
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