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Una2
Dec 6, 2017 18:23:49 GMT
Post by toybeast on Dec 6, 2017 18:23:49 GMT
So I was looking at some Circle lists from players that placed highly in some of the larger tournaments. Most of them were running Una2 lists with 4+ Scarsfell Griffons. Is this our current, most competitive build?
I want to start working on a more competitive, Tier I, list to play but didn't know if this was really where I needed to be sinking my money, or if that list was just the current "fad." I understand that as CID makes adjustments, and new models are released, that the competitive balance can shift, but didn't know if this was a good place to start.
Thanks...any input is appreciated!
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Una2
Dec 6, 2017 18:56:23 GMT
Post by streetpizza on Dec 6, 2017 18:56:23 GMT
I personally own 6 scarsfells and don't regret a single one. They play well with Una, Kaya2/3, Kromac2, Wurmwood and in lesser numbers with other casters. I would however caution against going full bird as that may actually lead to buyers remorse. Start with what you NEED to make Una work 5 to 6 and then decide if you want more from there.
As for Una herself, she is one of our only casters with a unit wide damage/accuracy buff and a threat extension buff along with the ability to keep herself safe from shooting. She doesn't require anything from the list to help keep her safe and she enables so much that circle has to bring to the table. She's simply a fantastic caster and a blast to play and play against. She is definitely not a fad.
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Una2
Dec 6, 2017 19:56:33 GMT
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 19:56:33 GMT
I personally own 6 scarsfells and don't regret a single one. They play well with Una, Kaya2/3, Kromac2, Wurmwood and in lesser numbers with other casters. I would however caution against going full bird as that may actually lead to buyers remorse. Start with what you NEED to make Una work 5 to 6 and then decide if you want more from there. As for Una herself, she is one of our only casters with a unit wide damage/accuracy buff and a threat extension buff along with the ability to keep herself safe from shooting. She doesn't require anything from the list to help keep her safe and she enables so much that circle has to bring to the table. She's simply a fantastic caster and a blast to play and play against. She is definitely not a fad. Where did you buy your birds from. I am looking into getting a handful of them but don't want to drop a crap ton of money on 6 of them.
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Una2
Dec 6, 2017 20:12:54 GMT
Post by claptrap on Dec 6, 2017 20:12:54 GMT
I do like Una, but her stock has fallen since she was nerfed at the same time as the Scarsfells. I think either the Scarsfell nerf or the Una nerf would have been fine, but the combination hit her pretty hard.
That being said, streetpizza's assessment of her is spot on. Personally, I own 3 Scarsfells and one Razorwing that I sometimes proxy as a Scarsfell when playing Una. My lists for several other warlocks frequently run 2 or 3 of them, but I don't think I'd run more than 3 with anyone but Una.
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Una2
Dec 6, 2017 21:29:47 GMT
Post by streetpizza on Dec 6, 2017 21:29:47 GMT
I personally own 6 scarsfells and don't regret a single one. They play well with Una, Kaya2/3, Kromac2, Wurmwood and in lesser numbers with other casters. I would however caution against going full bird as that may actually lead to buyers remorse. Start with what you NEED to make Una work 5 to 6 and then decide if you want more from there. As for Una herself, she is one of our only casters with a unit wide damage/accuracy buff and a threat extension buff along with the ability to keep herself safe from shooting. She doesn't require anything from the list to help keep her safe and she enables so much that circle has to bring to the table. She's simply a fantastic caster and a blast to play and play against. She is definitely not a fad. Where did you buy your birds from. I am looking into getting a handful of them but don't want to drop a crap ton of money on 6 of them. I've had them for 2ish years now. Purchased from various locations and people over that span as they became more and more useful to me. Can't really remember which retail outlets i used other than my local game store for 2. I do like Una, but her stock has fallen since she was nerfed at the same time as the Scarsfells. I think either the Scarsfell nerf or the Una nerf would have been fine, but the combination hit her pretty hard. When stock drops from "OP your opponent doesn't have a chance" to merely "really frickin' good" that's not a bad thing. I also wish we still had long leash but I would expect to see it reappear on the moon hound or rotter horn personally. Having it on at least one beast would help Tannith out a ton.
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Una2
Dec 7, 2017 0:28:03 GMT
Post by subversive on Dec 7, 2017 0:28:03 GMT
When stock drops from "OP your opponent doesn't have a chance" to merely "really frickin' good" that's not a bad thing. This. There are two reasons that you might not want to play Una: 1. You really prefer Wolds. 2. You don't own 4+ griffons. Una is a really solid caster that "turns on" almost everything in our faction similar to what Morvahna 2 did in MkII, but without the disadvantage of a large base, and with more personal defensive tech. You can play her with all griffons, but you don't have to.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Una2
Dec 8, 2017 11:03:45 GMT
Post by unded on Dec 8, 2017 11:03:45 GMT
Una definitely wants a fair whack of griffons (I've found the sweet spot to be 6), but you actually have a fair amount of variety available from there.
I've had a lot of success with the Wold boat (double Wyrd plus a fulcrum), and similarly playing in wolfsworn theme with reeves and WoO.
She's really good and surprisingly versatile.
-und_ed
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Una2
Dec 10, 2017 17:45:11 GMT
Post by Fudly on Dec 10, 2017 17:45:11 GMT
Una has been one of our best lists the last year, but I think her value fell sharply when wolds got buffed. These are the lists from eisenhammer: the lists for eisenhammer are up Morvahna1 & Krueger2 Wurmwood & Krueger2 Una2 & Krueger2 Bradigus & Krueger2 Kaya3 & Baldur2 Kromac1 & Baldur2 Kromac2 & Baldur2 Krueger2 & Baldur2 The themes are 1 Secret Masters 1 the Wild Hunt 1 the Devourer's Host 3 Call of the Wild 10 Bones of Orboros forum.page5.de/4.1/index.php?thread/71191-eisenhammer-v-listen-schmockratings/&postID=814492#post814492Bones of Orboros is where you should be spending your money.
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Una2
Dec 11, 2017 0:56:26 GMT
Post by catulle on Dec 11, 2017 0:56:26 GMT
If Bones paired with Bones actually yields results, Bones needs fixing sInce it's a clear design failure state...
ETA: Holy Firetrucking shit, scroll down from the link to immediately find "you half-sicilian mongrel." Firetruck those people and their retrograde racist bullshit.
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Una2
Dec 11, 2017 1:05:05 GMT
Post by macdaddy on Dec 11, 2017 1:05:05 GMT
If Bones paired with Bones actually yields results, Bones needs fixing sInce it's a clear design failure state... Or maybe its the rest of our themes that needs fixing. I think bones in a perfectly acceptable place. You see Bones +Bones because our other themes are incredibly niche or meh other than devourers host. Secret masters is a joke. Nothing in this world will convince me otherwise. Wild Hunt in SR2017 is really hard, it should work but lack on any staying power whatsoever combined with having a hard time cracking armor make it really difficult to pair with. Call of the wild is really only any good with all the scarsfells and a few heavies. Particularly with Kaya3, or una2. If anything is a failure of design space its the scarsfell gryphon. He outshines just about every single light in our stable outside of the woldwyrd and even then the scarsfell is probably more versatile. Not asking for nerfs, just think he has everything a light beast wants in a single package. Bones is so good because it just came out of CiD and circle finally has a list/theme that can play all aspects of the game and has lots of room for creativity.
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Una2
Dec 11, 2017 1:10:07 GMT
Post by catulle on Dec 11, 2017 1:10:07 GMT
If Bones paired with Bones actually yields results, Bones needs fixing sInce it's a clear design failure state... Or maybe its the rest of our themes that needs fixing. I think bones in a perfectly acceptable place. You see Bones +Bones because our other themes are incredibly niche or meh other than devourers host. Secret masters is a joke. Nothing in this world will convince me otherwise. Wild Hunt in SR2017 is really hard, it should work but lack on any staying power whatsoever combined with having a hard time cracking armor make it really difficult to pair with. Call of the wild is really only any good with all the scarsfells and a few heavies. Particularly with Kaya3, or una2. If anything is a failure of design space its the scarsfell gryphon. He outshines just about every single light in our stable outside of the woldwyrd and even then the scarsfell is probably more versatile. Not asking for nerfs, just think he has everything a light beast wants in a single package. Bones is so good because it just came out of CiD and circle finally has a list/theme that can play all aspects of the game and has lots of room for creativity. Fair points, though I'd definitely argue the Wild Argus and Gorax have places as well, with a niche mention to the razorwing and moonhound. But then if the niche isn't big enough, well, that's your point proven, isn't it?
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Una2
Dec 11, 2017 13:54:49 GMT
Post by daveg on Dec 11, 2017 13:54:49 GMT
If Bones paired with Bones actually yields results, Bones needs fixing sInce it's a clear design failure state... Or maybe its the rest of our themes that needs fixing. I think bones in a perfectly acceptable place. You see Bones +Bones because our other themes are incredibly niche or meh other than devourers host. Secret masters is a joke. Nothing in this world will convince me otherwise. Wild Hunt in SR2017 is really hard, it should work but lack on any staying power whatsoever combined with having a hard time cracking armor make it really difficult to pair with. Call of the wild is really only any good with all the scarsfells and a few heavies. Particularly with Kaya3, or una2. If anything is a failure of design space its the scarsfell gryphon. He outshines just about every single light in our stable outside of the woldwyrd and even then the scarsfell is probably more versatile. Not asking for nerfs, just think he has everything a light beast wants in a single package. Bones is so good because it just came out of CiD and circle finally has a list/theme that can play all aspects of the game and has lots of room for creativity. I've found both Wild Hunt and Call of the Wild to be perfectly viable in local competition. I haven't had the opportunity to play into the national meta yet. Secret Masters is almost certainly one of the half-baked themes. When themepocolypse hit, they said there would be themes that needed fleshing out and significant model releases to make viable.
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Una2
Dec 11, 2017 14:07:35 GMT
Post by macdaddy on Dec 11, 2017 14:07:35 GMT
I've found both Wild Hunt and Call of the Wild to be perfectly viable in local competition. I haven't had the opportunity to play into the national meta yet. Secret Masters is almost certainly one of the half-baked themes. When themepocolypse hit, they said there would be themes that needed fleshing out and significant model releases to make viable. I did say call was good with all the scarsfells. I just don't think its good enough without them. Def 15 dodge is a much needed contesting stat-line in that theme. I have considered running lots of argus but I run into issues because argus die like pansies. What casters for Wild Hunt? I've tried Mohsar, Baldur1, and Kromac1 (oh gosh so much kromac1) so far. Every game left me feeling like I had 0 scenario presence and 0 staying power. Lots of playing super cagey and very vulnerable to shooting. Once you start losing pieces the army just kind of falls apart. I think even with new blacklad releases the theme will really struggle to find a place. Mostly because the benefits are so counterproductive. I want minion units for sac pawn...I want blackclad models for free points...And then some generic free upkeeps...whooo frikkin hoooo. If the theme allowed 2 minion units and solos, or if our balcklad units were actually half decent I could see using it as our version of the "Generic" theme. Heck, I would complain less about it if I could just flipping take wurmwood in it. Mostly because I have a wurmwood list that literally fits perfectly into the theme lol. I expect a Secret masters/blacklad CiD sometime in 2018. But based on the next caster for us (a tharn lady) I think our first CiD in 2018 will be tharn. Which is fine as I own 2 units of bloodpack and really really like the devourers host theme.
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Una2
Dec 12, 2017 9:37:56 GMT
Post by jacobi on Dec 12, 2017 9:37:56 GMT
ETA: Holy Firetrucking shit, scroll down from the link to immediately find "you half-sicilian mongrel." Firetruck those people and their retrograde racist bullshit. They are buddies in reallife so its just a rough joke between friends. But it does arguably not belong to an open forum.
I also would not interpred too much into those lists. While there where a lot of high competitive players not every Circle-Player there was super competitive including me (the one whith the Kromac2 devourers host) list. For example one other Circleplayer just switched from Khador and had a total of six games with Circle before the tournament. I also think there were a lot of Bones lists because people where curios to try the wolds after the CID-change.
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Una2
Dec 12, 2017 22:08:01 GMT
daveg likes this
Post by streetpizza on Dec 12, 2017 22:08:01 GMT
On themes:
Bones is just solid since the update. I really can't complain about any aspect of it.
Wild hunt is fine...ish. It could use a couple of model releases and a rethink of the tracker benefit but ambushing wolves are nothing to sneeze at. Its main drawback in my mind is the varierty of solos available to it and the ability to generate free points. Update it so that Morraig can be taken for free and/or the war wolves a package of all three and it would be ready for the big stage.
Devourer's I think actually needs some help. It can't stand on ravagers alone. Luckily we'll be getting this in CID fairly soon in the new year (3 to 4 months?).
Call of the wild suffers from one small detail that jack themes like Creator's Might, Jaws and Heavy Metal don't and that's a lack of good infantry options. Having idrians available to CM and any of the plentiful options available to HM and Jaws really blow those themes wide open. If we had good minion options we could slot in using the friendly card option Call would be through the roof good. Tack on the addition of the worst character beast (both thematically and rules wise) to this theme and its cracks start to show. It'll be fixed just by having more options in minions and hopefully swapping Loki for Brennos. A wider solo selection couldn't hurt either.
Secret Master as others have said just feels incomplete. It suffers the same problems that sons of the tempest did at launch. Weird theme benefit that nobody really wants, must take units that hit like wet noodles, excludes two of the main casters that would actually like to use this theme and its upkeep spell benefit (Kromac1 and Wurmwood), cost to generate free models is high using models you really don't want to spam and the minion options available to use the theme benefit are lackluster. It doubly suffers from some severe overlap with bones where bones just does those lists better. Fixes would include reducing the threshold fro free points to 15pts, adding a benefit to blackclad models to magic ability to help with damage, new releases we just don't know about and a druid ranking officer for minions with unlimited ability to take minion models since that's intrinsically part of the theme.
Oh and fix summon vortex damnit.
For lights we actually do pretty good compared to most factions
I didn't see the wold watch or wyrd mentioned in the list above. I think now that they're Mat 6 and a point cheaper that people really need to start looking at the watchers. Between a curse of shadows + strength of stone these guys are hitting at P+S 16 which ain't to shabby for two boosted damage rolls on model that also has a decent gun. I'd like to see Fury3 but not having to frenzy is pretty nice.
The only real stinkers we have in our stable of lights are the winter argus, rotter horn, and razor wing. If we saw +1 rat on the argus, stealth on the rotter and long leash on the razor I think they might each cement themselves into decent roles withing lists. The argus would then be able to combo with a moon hound to seriously threaten infantry, the rotter would compete with the scarsfell as a infantry clearer without sacrificing the ability to get up the board and the razor could actually operate away from the caster threatening weird trample angles and hunting solos. Small changes mean a lot.
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