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Post by macdaddy on Nov 21, 2017 23:26:00 GMT
I am trying him out with all our ashen veiled heavies.
Def 14 seems...ok? 14/21 is a pretty solid statline from shooting.
I do agree the best use for him seems to be light Spam. Jacks like the dervish and devout seem the best options. Devouts are 15/20 under decel and B2B and dervishes are 15/18 under Decel and B2B. If I had the money I think I would run This:
Durst: CM -Heirophant -6 Dervishes -5 Devouts 2 Max Chior 2 Vassals Wrack Covenant
IMO that list looks horrifying. On Feat Turn Dervishes become 15/22 at range and devouts become 15/24. You get 11 lights that can hit hard with battle and are really durable and hard to hit. But good luck buying 11 Dervish/devout/purifier kits...
I think the reason Amon overshadows every jack caster we have is because he has so many BG support tools where the rest of our casters are more mixed. Even Dursts Feat has the whole “pass on a hit to jack” thing that I find clunky and hard to utilize. Synergy + Mobility is dumb and it’s horrible for our design space. Amon is the only reason we lost HoV on lights. I would rather him just replace Mobility for boundless charge and gain a focus honestly. If it means we can get more free space with our faction design when it comes to jacks.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Nov 22, 2017 13:05:43 GMT
I am trying him out with all our ashen veiled heavies. Def 14 seems...ok? 14/21 is a pretty solid statline from shooting. I do agree the best use for him seems to be light Spam. Jacks like the dervish and devout seem the best options. Devouts are 15/20 under decel and B2B and dervishes are 15/18 under Decel and B2B. If I had the money I think I would run This: Durst: CM -Heirophant -6 Dervishes -5 Devouts 2 Max Chior 2 Vassals Wrack Covenant IMO that list looks horrifying. On Feat Turn Dervishes become 15/22 at range and devouts become 15/24. You get 11 lights that can hit hard with battle and are really durable and hard to hit. But good luck buying 11 Dervish/devout/purifier kits... I think the reason Amon overshadows every jack caster we have is because he has so many BG support tools where the rest of our casters are more mixed. Even Dursts Feat has the whole “pass on a hit to jack” thing that I find clunky and hard to utilize. Synergy + Mobility is dumb and it’s horrible for our design space. Amon is the only reason we lost HoV on lights. I would rather him just replace Mobility for boundless charge and gain a focus honestly. If it means we can get more free space with our faction design when it comes to jacks. It's honestly really tricky to try to find a balance with Durst. His abilities point towards a much more structured approach, compared to Amon's "dervishes and crusaders". It's one I'm definitely interested to explore further. I was hoping to take Durst to a tournament Saturday but I'm not comfortable with what I've got in the list so I'll stick with the tried and true Amon for now. It's funny, I never thought I'd say this about Amon (especially in mk2) but I actually think he's having a similar effect to Haley 2- he's strong enough that he's overshadowing other in-faction options... Am I the only one thinking this?
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Post by paradox on Nov 22, 2017 13:51:36 GMT
No, you are not.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 22, 2017 15:24:42 GMT
I am trying him out with all our ashen veiled heavies. Def 14 seems...ok? 14/21 is a pretty solid statline from shooting. I do agree the best use for him seems to be light Spam. Jacks like the dervish and devout seem the best options. Devouts are 15/20 under decel and B2B and dervishes are 15/18 under Decel and B2B. If I had the money I think I would run This: Durst: CM -Heirophant -6 Dervishes -5 Devouts 2 Max Chior 2 Vassals Wrack Covenant IMO that list looks horrifying. On Feat Turn Dervishes become 15/22 at range and devouts become 15/24. You get 11 lights that can hit hard with battle and are really durable and hard to hit. But good luck buying 11 Dervish/devout/purifier kits... I think the reason Amon overshadows every jack caster we have is because he has so many BG support tools where the rest of our casters are more mixed. Even Dursts Feat has the whole “pass on a hit to jack” thing that I find clunky and hard to utilize. Synergy + Mobility is dumb and it’s horrible for our design space. Amon is the only reason we lost HoV on lights. I would rather him just replace Mobility for boundless charge and gain a focus honestly. If it means we can get more free space with our faction design when it comes to jacks. If I may - Durst running an Eye of truth and a Vigilant EoT 10/19 Ashen veil 12/19 Shield 12/21 Bulwark 14/21 Roadblock 18/21 Decel 18/23 Feat 18/27
With Oracular Vision. Choir to sing no spells. I don't think you can get more defense stats vs guns anywhere else.
This is something I want to do just for the sake of laughs. One of my main opponents is Cygnar and Legion dies like flies to guns. This would just be to anger him (once. I'd never run it consistently)
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 22, 2017 20:02:44 GMT
If I may - Durst running an Eye of truth and a Vigilant EoT 10/19 Ashen veil 12/19 Shield 12/21 Bulwark 14/21 Roadblock 18/21 Decel 18/23 Feat 18/27
With Oracular Vision. Choir to sing no spells. I don't think you can get more defense stats vs guns anywhere else.
This is something I want to do just for the sake of laughs. One of my main opponents is Cygnar and Legion dies like flies to guns. This would just be to anger him (once. I'd never run it consistently)
That's hilarious and mean. I love it!
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Nov 22, 2017 21:23:31 GMT
Concealment and cover do not stack
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 23, 2017 1:53:22 GMT
Concealment and cover do not stack ah, right. 16/27 My bad
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Nov 27, 2017 14:58:58 GMT
Could this be it? Could it be... The PERFECT Durst list? War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Durst Theme: The Faithful Masses 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 0 - Sanctifier - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Templar - PC: 15 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 THEME: The Faithful Masses --- GENERATED : 11/27/2017 14:58:10 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
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Post by Gaston on Nov 27, 2017 18:44:20 GMT
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Nov 27, 2017 23:49:37 GMT
Could this be it? Could it be... The PERFECT Durst list? Take Vilmon as free instead of the CA for an extra point and you'd be a bit closer .
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Nov 28, 2017 14:24:42 GMT
Could this be it? Could it be... The PERFECT Durst list? Take Vilmon as free instead of the CA for an extra point and you'd be a bit closer . Heh. Vilmon can certainly be free. Amended. War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Durst Theme: The Faithful Masses 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Templar - PC: 15 - Castigator - PC: 12 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 0 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Champion of the Order of the Wall - PC: 8 - Champion of the Order of the Wall (Continued) Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 THEME: The Faithful Masses --- GENERATED : 11/28/2017 14:24:05 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Mar 21, 2018 14:02:23 GMT
Old thread revival!
I am looking at my Durst model and I want to play him. Having no table top experience with him, I landed on a list Running:
Durst in FM Hierophant -Indictor x2 -Sanctifier x2 -Vigilant The book (free) Wrack x2 Mechanic Zealots with UA x2
Sanctifiers seem like a good take as they fuel themselves allowing for a larger battle group. I am trying to decide if it is better to have more crusaders for more boxes, slightly more pow. Or to double down on shields and take a combination of templars and indictors. I am sticking with heavies as they gain from theme. Vigilant is there to guard Durst, but not sure he needs it. He does give durst something to b2b with for Bulwark.
Zealots are kinda there to die. Would it be better to take paladins? (I do not own Idreans. Yes, I know that is blasphemous.)
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 21, 2018 16:13:13 GMT
So I have been playing this quite a lot since the new year: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0OeU1S223U3qjCjC3E3C3t2_3G3H3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (Durst 1) Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith [+28] - Castigator [12] - Reckoner [16] - Sanctifier [14] - Hierophant [0(3)] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] The Covenant of Menoth [0(4)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] It is really solid into gun-lines, and I think that's what you want durst for. He is a very good Cygnar drop, and IME he plays really well generally into combined arms lists, and gun-line skews. Idrians take on other infantry units really well, you can mini-feat to buy you a turn to engage units that out threaten you. The champions function as hard to remove contesting pieces. They threat 18" with boundless charge and righteous vengeance and are really good at locking down ranged threats. The BG is also really durable from shooting. 14/21 (16/21 behind the wall given by the theme) is incredibly durable. The mechanik also keeps things from bein crippled on the approach and post feat turn. Another point, the BG hits really hard and threats pretty far with Boundless + Righteous vengeance a sanctifier can threaten 15" at P+S 20/18 under battle and Mat 8, with a free charge. Its pretty hardcore and you can reach out and bad tough things from way downfield. Finally, durst is actually pretty darn hard to assassinate. Behind the wall, with bull-wark from the handy dandy reckoner, he sits at Def 19 from shooting, def 17 from melee or 19 from melee with ashen veil. All while being arm 20 from shooting and spells. I still am working with the list, but overall I have found ti to be surprisingly good and versatile with all but one loss being more about mistakes and brain farts, than bad match ups. It cannot handle things most spam lists but it has a solid scenario presence, and grinds attrition fairly well. They key is not to rely on bullwark, but to keep is a defensive layer. Opponents will typically be surprised that your jack is def 16-18 in melee, or def 14 at range. Into hordes, 14-23 on feat turn is really really hard to crack. The key here is, Durst plays into gunlines really well. Some gun-lines will Tear amon apart, durst does not worry about those match ups as much. The only issue I have had recently Is cloud-walls, which is really frustrating because there are only like 4 cloud-walls lists in the game and I happen to keep facing them. I am currently working on how to deal with them in my current pairing but don't want to tech too much because Durst can handle things like Haley 3 with all the trenchers and Thyra can handle things Like KoN in DM or Koldgrannie in PoD.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Mar 21, 2018 16:57:07 GMT
Thanks Macdaddy!
Sadly I do not own idreans (as stated) or Champions. FM is the last theme I have started buying parts for. Your information is very helpful though! For instance: I learned that bulwark is +2 DEF! Not armor as my mind read it the first two times. I am now redesigning my list!
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 21, 2018 17:54:07 GMT
Thanks Macdaddy! Sadly I do not own idreans (as stated) or Champions. FM is the last theme I have started buying parts for. Your information is very helpful though! For instance: I learned that bulwark is +2 DEF! Not armor as my mind read it the first two times. I am now redesigning my list! How many Flame bringers do you own? Gaston used a List with Durst, some Templars, and double murder ponies successfully
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