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Post by elladan52 on Nov 3, 2017 14:42:50 GMT
I'm pretty torn where to play him. What you want is: -a ranged unit for deadeye -a beast with Snipe for his gun -a medium to high def unit with good footprint for his feat If you go winds, you don't have a goot frontline Unit If you go MoW you have no Beast with snipe If you go Exalted, you lack a ranged unit So I've made one list each and will be testing them. I think he has a great lot of tools to deal with a lot of different problems and therefore has the potential to be the main caster in a two list setup. (second one will be someone with a damage buff...) What qualifies as a good front line unit for you?
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st4inless
Baby's First Wargame
People been Skorning around here for Decades.
Posts: 9
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Post by st4inless on Nov 3, 2017 15:25:04 GMT
@elladan that is hard to describe with few words, but I'll try: -faster up the field than average of army. -ability to deal with opposing screen of similar cost. -ability reasonably free itself from "run to engage" strategies.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Nov 3, 2017 20:56:58 GMT
Any thoughts in jamming him into warhost? Resourceful means he wants to put upkeeps on his beasts and I can think of worse things then a bronzeback with Pathfinder and prowl.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Nov 3, 2017 22:02:17 GMT
Certainly worth a thought once the Mist Speaker change goes live. Wouldn't want to play him without Guidance though.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 3, 2017 23:13:23 GMT
Certainly worth a thought once the Mist Speaker change goes live. Wouldn't want to play him without Guidance though. Can you elaborate? We have access to Guidance already. What does the Mist Speaker bring after changes that makes it a better choice than an Extoller?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Nov 3, 2017 23:21:41 GMT
He's allowed in Warhost if that makes any sense. It doesn't, but that's still how it works.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 4, 2017 0:03:23 GMT
He's allowed in Warhost if that makes any sense. It doesn't, but that's still how it works. Got it. Though if you are playing a battle group list with him, why would you do it outside of WoD? Warhost doesn't seem to synergize well with much of anything he wants to do. Perhaps a flight of Archidons Warpathing under feat, but I think guns with 3" OoA movement followed by Swift Hunter is a better way to go.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 4, 2017 0:56:29 GMT
He's allowed in Warhost if that makes any sense. It doesn't, but that's still how it works. Got it. Though if you are playing a battle group list with him, why would you do it outside of WoD? Warhost doesn't seem to synergize well with much of anything he wants to do. Perhaps a flight of Archidons Warpathing under feat, but I think guns with 3" OoA movement followed by Swift Hunter is a better way to go. i don't think gunline actually particularily suits him. But winds still may be his best list. If you build quite a heavy melee beast line to take advantage of warpath you can potentially back it up with a unit of reivers. Winds also allows the turtle which is skorne's hands down best heavy. the slingers or reivers or whatever strips screens and the beasts do their thing. if he goes full beast gunline then i think hes just a far worse version of Rasheth, since Rasheth swings an entire army's def and arm for one turn
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 4, 2017 1:41:35 GMT
"i don't think gunline actually particularily suits him. But winds still may be his best list. If you build quite a heavy melee beast line to take advantage of warpath you can potentially back it up with a unit of reivers. Winds also allows the turtle which is skorne's hands down best heavy.
the slingers or reivers or whatever strips screens and the beasts do their thing.
if he goes full beast gunline then i think hes just a far worse version of Rasheth, since Rasheth swings an entire army's def and arm for one turn"I agree on all points. My comment was in regards to using him in Warhost, which given its restrictions is entirely battlegroup driven. Turtles are allowed, but why would anyone use Jalaam in IWH with Turtles is beyond me. If you want to run Jalaam with an all battlegroup list, do it in Winds. At which point, he is an inferior warlock to the Hexy/Fatty versions.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Nov 4, 2017 3:12:37 GMT
I don't know, Jalaam seems like he's probably another useful option in IWH. Turtles don't benefit from him, but you need 0 synergy as an excuse to take them. Meanwhile, he can take a screen of Cyclops who will pseudo side step with Warpath. He can speed up Aradi, who definitely need it and Sentinels significantly benefit from his feat and Deadeye. He can take Zaadesh to up hitting power if he wants. He'll have plenty of fury available with Resourceful and he need not (but can) pay the Gladiator tax. Between Warpath, Vanish and his gun he'll be powerful AND mobile late game which is especially important in IWH.
I'm not saying it's a match made in heaven with obvious and powerful synergies, but as lists take back more infantry I think it's viable and should be explored.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Nov 4, 2017 3:21:20 GMT
My thoughts on Jalaam: It's great to see us getting a guerrilla warfare type of caster and it makes WoD stand out much more than when it was only used with Hexy or Fatty. He fixes our weakness to terrain and brings it into our favor. With Snipe from a raider or cannoneer, his RoF 2 becomes awesome as his range becomes 16. With prey and burst fire, his 10 guns suddenly become 13 on medium and 14 on large based models. He can also clear out incorporeal models quickly by preying them and sniping from well far enough back, as concealment and cover are of no concern while he has hunter. At def 15, arm 15, and no stealth he'll need to be babied though, so keeping a shield guard near him will be key. As people mentioned, Deadeye on slingers means you can quickly plaster corrosion all over the place. Putting it on a unit of Venator Rievers makes for some nasty clearing capabilities. How to use Artifice of Deviation correctly will probably be the main learning curve with him, as the cover and rough terrain is point, but AoEs will still do full deviation damage on models that have no where near the armor to take it. Passing out pathfinder and prowl, his vanishing spell, and warpath can all be nasty as well. I'm particularly interested in how people will combine Swift Hunter with the Warpath. His feat is also a nice alpha killer. The one issue I did notice though, is that none of his upkeeps, out of all 3, are ones you'd have targeting a model in your battlegroup x.x; meaning "resourceful" doesn't even come into play, making fury scarce.
Taking everything into consideration, this is what I came up with for a first rough draft.
Jalaam (Winds of Death) 75/75
Primus Jalaam -Basilisk Krea -Cyclops Shaman -Cyclops Raider -Cyclops Brute
Seige Animantarax Venator Dakar (free) Extoller Soulward Venator Slingers (min) Venator Rievers (max) -Venator Reiver Officer & Standard Venator Rievers (max) -Venator Reiver Officer & Standard
Venator Flayer Cannon Crew (free) Venator Flayer Cannon Crew (free) Paingiver Beast Handlers (min)
I actually DO want to run 2 turtles in this list for the extra push power, but I don't have the money to just go out and pump it into models I may only use in 1 or 2 lists, especially when they are that expensive. The idea behind the list is actually rather accurate volume fire that can clear entire zones with little issue. The slingers are sacrifice models to take out a few chunks of infantry models. The Reivers with their Dakar and officer & standard should be able to focus fire any heavy beasts that aren't Khador jack spams while also being a great clearing force of dangerous models. For now, the turtle is my beef unit. The brute is to help against assassinations and controlling back zones. I'm thinking of switching one of the flayer cannons with a catapult for long range AoE fire; it has one of the longest base ranges in the game. Things that are expendable in the list to still have the same effect would include the venator riever attachments, and perhaps the brute if I'm going to push another turtle in there. I would like to get a unit like the Efaarit Scouts, though, which would be able to deal with even the heaviest armored units.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Nov 4, 2017 3:30:39 GMT
Jalaam is a member of his own battlegroup so at least warpath is always free.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 4, 2017 4:06:10 GMT
"I don't know, Jalaam seems like he's probably another useful option in IWH. Turtles don't benefit from him, but you need 0 synergy as an excuse to take them.
I'm not saying it's a match made in heaven with obvious and powerful synergies, but as lists take back more infantry I think it's viable and should be explored."
It's a fair point to say that a model that carries itself has a place, even if outside a battlegroup. However, I think it's worth noting that Turtles are meant to take a place of a heavy warbeast, and Jalaam is designed to work by enhancing his warbeasts through Warpath. Granted, he can (and likely will) be played without that aspect, but the spell is on the card for a reason. Fatty and the Hexys make the Turtle shine specifically because they are debuff warlocks, not FF and battlegroup buffers. Infantry coming back (or not, or coming back only in some factions) is going to have a big swing on how these warlocks shake out. I frankly am on the fence on Jalaam because I don't see him doing anything in my meta right now I can't with a current warlock.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 4, 2017 4:35:41 GMT
I don't know, Jalaam seems like he's probably another useful option in IWH. Turtles don't benefit from him, but you need 0 synergy as an excuse to take them. Meanwhile, he can take a screen of Cyclops who will pseudo side step with Warpath. He can speed up Aradi, who definitely need it and Sentinels significantly benefit from his feat and Deadeye. He can take Zaadesh to up hitting power if he wants. He'll have plenty of fury available with Resourceful and he need not (but can) pay the Gladiator tax. Between Warpath, Vanish and his gun he'll be powerful AND mobile late game which is especially important in IWH. I'm not saying it's a match made in heaven with obvious and powerful synergies, but as lists take back more infantry I think it's viable and should be explored. He can do all this in winds too except with infantry that benefit from his spells. Winds has no beast restriction except characters for some reasom
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Nov 6, 2017 15:10:00 GMT
My eventual plan is in Winds with 3-4 Cannoneers and 2 shamans. The shamans can set up warpath for the cannonneers, who should be in a good position to go in for melee when needed if they managed a swift hunter the previous turn. Cannoneers are capable in melee. Four of them might be enough to patch up Jalaam's lack of damage boosting. So far, swift hunter and Warpath triggers has proven very consistent on 6 beasts with ranged threats above 20, blast, ghost sight, and access to Guidance. Not to mention Jalaam himself.
For the rest of the list I was thinking just Reivers+UA x1 and Max Slingers x1. I'd probably run a second unit of them, but I don't have them and have zero likelihood of buying a second unit. Double soulwards. The rest of the points would go to minion units like gremlin swarm and maybe a hutchuck.
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