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Post by zerfius on Mar 28, 2017 14:31:04 GMT
Hey all,
So I put together this butcher 1 list and wanted to get your thoughts on it. This is only the second list I have built, so I would like to know potential strengths and weaknesses, what kind of strategy suggestions, etc. Thanks!
Butcher 1
-Ruin
-Behemoth
-Spriggan
Min Battle Mechaniks
Great Bears
Min Iron Fang Pikemen+UA
Andrei Malakov
-Juggernaut
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Post by sand20go on Mar 28, 2017 16:36:24 GMT
The main problem with Butcher 1 is delivering stuff. It is SLOW. So I would seriously consider over the Iron Fangs the Man of War boat. (Shocks+UA+MoW Kovnik). Same speed as the IFP. Will hit like a brick under feat (and fury?) and be more survivable on the approach. Sadly ARM 18 single wound just melts under the current meta.
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Post by Irusk2K on Mar 28, 2017 17:08:46 GMT
Plus MoWs can block line of site to Butcher's medium base.
Personally I find Malakov doesn't do much for a Butcher1 list. Giving him Behemoth and his own min unit of mechanics isn't bad but it's a lot of points to send and kind of risky.
I haven't either yet but Butcher1 in the Jaws of the Wolf or Winterguard themes looks like they would be good fits.
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Post by h4ppynz on Mar 28, 2017 19:58:49 GMT
I agree with all of the above comments.
Also; why the Spriggan? You have virtually no shooting so it shouldn't be the flares?
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Post by zerfius on Mar 28, 2017 20:34:41 GMT
I chose the Spriggan because of the reach and because I do not have very many basic jacks right now. I have him, juggs, and the one with the spike on his head.
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Post by h4ppynz on Mar 28, 2017 22:16:05 GMT
Do you have TWO juggs? Completely understand the use if you only have that many jacks  Spike on his head? You mean a clam jack? I think virtually any other jack would be better value in this list but the Spriggan isn't awful.. just expensive (and MAT 6  ) |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 28, 2017 23:43:25 GMT
I chose the Spriggan because of the reach and because I do not have very many basic jacks right now. I have him, juggs, and the one with the spike on his head. Zerfius, welcome to the Motherland. We help Komrades here. That's one of the things I've always loved about the Khador faction forum. And, well, that's what this is now! So...help us help you. 1. What models do you own? 2. Are you experienced at the game and just new to the faction, or new to both? 3. What are you facing most commonly? (OK to say, "No idea! I just want stuff that works well together!!!" In terms of your list, I agree with a couple of points made so far. - Single wound infantry dies pretty easily. You need a reason to bring it and a min unit of Pikemen might not cut it. I'd rather see a max unit or something else, but let's see what models you own first... Also, if your answer to #3 is "Skorne bricks", that changes things. - The Spriggan is not a bad jack, but it's pretty niche. Competitively, we generally bring it if you're trying to deal with clouds in a shooty list, or if you're bringing something where you are trying to launch a Bulldoze capable jack clear across the board to assassinate your opponents caster. Butcher doesn't do either of these things. Ever. In terms of bringing another jack, I'd take the Devastator (the jack you have with the spike). He's ARM 23 and great at holding scenarios, slams like a king, and he's actually quite good with Butcher 1 because the Rain of Death blast is boosted. Yeah, that jack's a boss. Butcher - Behemoth - Ruin - Devastator Malakov - Juggernaut Great Bears Mechanics min That's the start of a good list. I disagree with the statement that Malakov is no good with Butcher. Butcher needs things that speed his stuff up and delivers it, and Malakov does that really well. A fully loaded and Redlined Juggernaut on feat turn will be absolutely hilarious. Don't let the naysayers dissuade you. That's 56 points. 19 left to work with. If you're strapped for models because you're just starting out, we can put the Spriggan back in to fill the points. It's not *bad*, but really not great for the points investment. What else ya got? |
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Post by zerfius on Mar 29, 2017 3:04:07 GMT
I feel like I have a lot of models, but they are kind of all over the place:
MOW Demo
MOW Shocktroopers
MOW Bombadiers
Widowmaker Scouts
Battle Mechaniks
Wintergaurd Infanty+UA+rocketsx3
Wintergaurd mortar
Iron Fang Pikemen+ua+kovnik
Great Bears
Greylord Ternions
Solos
Kovnik Joe
A few Mercs (sylyss, a+h, ragman, eiryss, gorman, reinholdt)
MOW Drakhun (mounted only)
Iron Fang Kovnik
Kovnik Malakov
Wardog
Widowmaker marksman
Jacks
Behemoth
Black Ivan
Juggsx3
Ruin
Spriggan
Torch
Devastator
I also have a Kodiak/Grolar kit that I am working on and a juggernaut kit that I am working on, both will be magnetized.
I am new to the game. I have maybe 5 battles under my belt and have played with an irusk1 infantry list.
Mostly I do not know what I am going to play against. My group is pretty active and diverse. I know I need to beat an Amon list. Another is a retribution list with a colossal that pushes me around. I have played against trolls and there are a few legions guys.
I appreciate all of the help!
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Post by khadorjack on Mar 29, 2017 6:37:20 GMT
I think you can build a very solid butcher1 list with
Ruin
devastator
behemoth
MoW boat
riflecorps boat (boosted damage on feat, remember)
wardog (butcher loves puppies)
here we are at 74pts. You have ranged game with behemoth and rifles, good melee game with MoWs, ruin, and behemoth itself. Devastator rocks in a lot of situations. Can be nice and solid. Of course this is an idea, feel free to play what you really like!
Sadly, one-wound melee infantry sucks in this came if they don't have at least ARM20 (or if they have insane DEF), because of all the low-pow fire, electroleaps, blasts... is a bad world for humans out there. You take the risk to be shoot out of the table before you can hit a single target.
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Post by Irusk2K on Mar 29, 2017 18:40:29 GMT
I threw this list together with the stuff you have. No idea if its any good but it looks like it would be fun.
Jaws of the Wolf Theme
Butcher1
- War Dog
- Behemoth
- Ruin
- Devastator
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
Min Mechaniks
- Officer
Widowmaker Scouts
Widowmaker Marksmen
War Dog, Mechanik Officer, and Marksmen are free
Mechaniks get Repo 3"
Opponent loses Advanced Deploy
If you want to run the MoW I highly recommend getting the Officer and the Kovnik.
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Post by zerfius on Mar 29, 2017 19:12:56 GMT
That list does look like fun. And I have been shopping for the Kovnik and Officer as I have tried to run the shocktroopers without them and the best they can do is crawl.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 29, 2017 23:04:33 GMT
I like Irusk2K's list. This should also be pretty good using the Winterguard Theme and the models you have. Here are some strategy tips on how to make this list "work", and why I think it works.
The WG theme will give two free advance moves, which I think Butcher will appreciate due to the lack of speed. You also get a free Mortar, which will be boosted POW 10s on feat turn. You also get Sac Pawn for days (which you can use as many times per round as you have dudes in range) for B1.
Turn 1
Use AM on the Devastator and a Juggernaut. Yes, the Devastator (not 2 Juggernauts). Butcher puts Fury on the AM Juggernaut. Run all of your jacks on the 1st turn, regardless of whether you are going 1st or 2nd. You're going to put Iron Flesh on the Winterguard. Run your winterguard out in front of your 2nd line jacks (2 Juggernauts and Ruin). They are going to screen. You're going to advance deploy the Widowmakers and Marksman and get them into a forest, behind a wall, or on a hill in a position where they can put down pressure turn 2. If there's stuff in range on Turn 1 (because you went 2nd) feel free to start shooting. Use premeasurement to ensure that you won't lose all your widowmakers Turn 1. You can lose some WG, but use premeasurement to ensure that you won't lose either your 3 rockets or your officer and standard, or Joe, on turn 2. Use Joe to get out tough.
Turn 2/3
Your question will be whether to feat or not on Turn 2, which is a positioning issue. Your list is an attrition list, and your goal will be to get as much of your opponents stuff off the table as possible on a productive feat turn. Khador Jacks trade up in almost every scenario. Odd are that you and your opponent ran stuff up on Turn 1, which means you're in range Turn 2 to feat. Butcher will activate first and feat. You're going to use Joe to get out boosted attack rolls, and the WGI are going to move up, shoot - maybe charging and using the minifeat+gunfighter to get boosted 12 sprays out to clear charge lanes. Devastator is going to move in and use boosted ROD. WGI won't care since they're immune to blast damage. The Juggernaut will charge into the highest value target with a POW 22 ice axe. Be sure to fully load your Jugger.
Don't be afraid to lose some WGI troops turn 1 to shooting, or to have your jacks take some shots. They're more durable than you think.
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Devastator - PC: 14
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
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