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Post by NoSuchMethod on Sept 27, 2017 12:28:37 GMT
We've been playing this way on-and-off since they started dropping. I don't dislike the concept of themes (quite the opposite), but in this current transitional state they seem to be quite unbalancing. There's a lot of variability in some factions having very narrow (or very broad) lists, a few just getting wacky "take X out-of-faction" themes, and in general the balance between building in theme vs. out of theme. Once all the themes are released and they iron out the internal balance issues for factions, I think they will probably be a great feature and we will allow them unconditionally again. But for this summer/fall at least, it's been problematic. An extreme example would be a player building out of theme coming up against another player who is getting 15-20 free points from a theme list in a local event... it just doesn't feel right, I guess. And there are a few dominant, spammy themes that seem to reward a spend-to-win mentality, which is something we generally try to avoid. If you are training for a national tourney, obviously you need to be playing with and against theme lists right now, I get that. But for a primarily casual & local crowd, I think limiting their use is a good idea for the time being.
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 27, 2017 12:32:57 GMT
I mean, if a guest can't be bothered to register, should BFT be bothered to give a well written reply? No wait, erase my last post, i'm not talking to you, you have the default picture. Haha fair enough, you got me there.
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Post by Arrows on Sept 27, 2017 12:33:51 GMT
The weakness of guest accounts.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 27, 2017 12:41:04 GMT
The weakness of guest accounts. Just make a proper account, use a stupid pseudonym and choose a stale old meme for your avatar, that's what I did
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 27, 2017 12:44:43 GMT
The weakness of guest accounts. Don't take the haters on here too personally. While I don't think themes are inherently bad for the game and I actually blame the current meta (aka the dominance of cryx) mostly one CiD cycle and 2 casters in the cryx faction, I think as far as other factions go themes are OK. Themes do promote power creep but we are seeing the Non-cryx and Non-cygnar themes as being relatively well off against each other. Honestly for the most part themes are OK. Ghost fleet isn't inherently bad, Denny 1 and coven are and make it oppressive. Dark Host on the other hand is incredibly potent and it's CiD failed to acknowledge and fix the more brutal combinations (like coven and double wraith engine). I would totally play a non theme event. I wouldn't want it to be a consistent thing, but every once in a while it would be fun and challenging for players to go back to making list without free models and random benefits. I actually play Wurmwood out of theme and IMO he is currently best out of theme. ill have to test him out in the Call of the Wild and Bones with the New wolds, but he is one of the few casters that excells with a variety of toolbox models that themes typically do not allow. Overall I think the biggest issue in the game right now is Denny 1, Coven, and dark host as a whole particularly wraith engines counting towards free points. Everything else is pretty bearable and while I am sure if those things get nerfed another faction will rise to the top (probably ret, or cygnar) at least things will be a little more balanced again. If you really hate themes there is always company of iron. I am gonna be switching to that for a while when it comes out. Seems like a blast to play.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Sept 27, 2017 14:05:04 GMT
I'm not a fan of themes but I play them to keep myself at my opponent's level. I would definetely play a no theme event, the list I had the most fun playing was an out of theme Kaelyssa list that now struggles to keep up with lists with 15 more points.
I can understand why PP is doing what they are doing. I still don't like where it is taking us. It looks to me like it's creating real power creep. I might be wrong, I think both sides have merit. Theme Forces allow to make models viable in a given situation, without having to think about the interactions that a buff might have with other existing power pieces.
My biggest gripe is that Themes and Casters aren't born equal. Very strong caster and very strong themes are pretty harsh to deal with when brought together, especially if the pairing is made up of 2 such combinations.
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Post by Swampmist on Sept 27, 2017 14:54:44 GMT
the mod team is watching this, just so you are all aware.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Sept 27, 2017 15:17:03 GMT
the mod team is watching this, just so you are all aware. I have a wonderful image of you all there with popcorn and 3d specs shouting BURN as you read particularly inflammatory comments.
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Post by unmitigated on Sept 27, 2017 15:20:56 GMT
I'd be interested to see what factions people play that want to ban themes.
I wonder how closely it'll track to tournament results shortly after mk3 started.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 27, 2017 15:21:26 GMT
the mod team is watching this, just so you are all aware. FORGIVE ME MASTER MODERATOR I MEANT NO HARM.... *cries softly*
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Sept 27, 2017 15:22:28 GMT
I play Retribution and dislike the themes in general, even though our 3 themes are playable. They are just very boring and not really flexible at all.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 27, 2017 15:29:40 GMT
I'd be interested to see what factions people play that want to ban themes. I wonder how closely it'll track to tournament results shortly after mk3 started. Well pretty few people actually want to outright ban themes. Some (like me) just want to play on a somewhat even field with themes. And to answer is Skorne, proud owner of one very strong theme force.
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Post by unmitigated on Sept 27, 2017 15:32:53 GMT
I'd be interested to see what factions people play that want to ban themes. I wonder how closely it'll track to tournament results shortly after mk3 started. Well pretty few people actually want to outright ban themes. Some (like me) just want to play on a somewhat even field with themes. And to answer is Skorne, proud owner of one very strong theme force. Yeah I feel like theme truthers and theme exterminators are functionally different groups. Unfortunately with so many moving parts it's always going to be really easy to unbalance the game and really hard to balance it. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 27, 2017 15:34:33 GMT
Themes don't limit "creativity", in fact themes have implemented more model diversity than i've ever seen in the history of this game from Mk1 forward. Whens the last time prior to ghost fleet you played against revenants? Who'd have taken marauders in mk2? Competitive play was just a march of the same top casters and units prior to themes.
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Post by unmitigated on Sept 27, 2017 15:36:24 GMT
Themes don't limit "creativity", in fact themes have implemented more model diversity than i've ever seen in the history of this game from Mk1 forward. Whens the last time prior to ghost fleet you played against revenants? Who'd have taken marauders in mk2? Competitive play was just a march of the same top casters and units prior to themes. "Themes limit creativity/mk3 sucks" = "I can't take what I did in mk2 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
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