Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Kreoss 3
Oct 31, 2017 9:53:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Fire Step on Oct 31, 2017 9:53:33 GMT
Question: Kreoss3 has the rule
Elite Cadre: (Exemplar Vengers) - This model gives all Exemplar Vengers in the same army Divine Inspiration
Does Gravvus count as an exemplar venger?
He has Exemplar in his title "High Exemplar Gravus" And venger in his subtitle "protectorate venger dragoon solo"
He has the key words but not all together.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Oct 31, 2017 12:21:58 GMT
Question: Kreoss3 has the rule Elite Cadre: (Exemplar Vengers) - This model gives all Exemplar Vengers in the same army Divine Inspiration Does Gravvus count as an exemplar venger? He has Exemplar in his title "High Exemplar Gravus" And venger in his subtitle "protectorate venger dragoon solo" He has the key words but not all together. My understanding is that the words don't have to be together. Gravus is all of the following; an Exemplar solo, a Venger solo, a Protectorate solo, a Dragoon solo, a High Solo and a Gravus solo.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Oct 31, 2017 12:35:51 GMT
Question: Kreoss3 has the rule Elite Cadre: (Exemplar Vengers) - This model gives all Exemplar Vengers in the same army Divine Inspiration Does Gravvus count as an exemplar venger? He has Exemplar in his title "High Exemplar Gravus" And venger in his subtitle "protectorate venger dragoon solo" He has the key words but not all together. My understanding is that the words don't have to be together. Gravus is all of the following; an Exemplar solo, a Venger solo, a Protectorate solo, a Dragoon solo, a High Solo and a Gravus solo. Funnily enough, just found a post from the old forums where it appears to have been agreed he does, because the correct words are all there, and it doesn't say in the rules that they have to be all together. Interesting,and a really good outcome
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Oct 31, 2017 14:15:10 GMT
Woah, Gravus benefits from Divine Inspiration!
I was happy enough including him since Kreoss being an Exemplar in MK III now benefited from Gravus no-knockdown aura, but a Gravus loaded up with souls under Divine Inspiration will be even more of a force to reckon with
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Kreoss 3
Oct 31, 2017 16:17:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hashmal on Oct 31, 2017 16:17:09 GMT
Can confirm he hits hard.
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Post by hereticbbq on Nov 2, 2017 3:01:37 GMT
Managed to pick up K3 and Gravus cheap recently, looking forward to them arriving and getting them on the table now. I've put together a fairly "standard" list which I think will work as expected War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Intercessor Kreoss Theme: Exemplar Interdiction 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Intercessor Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) High Exemplar Gravus - PC: 9 - High Exemplar Gravus (Continued) Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Exemplar Warder Elias Gade - PC: 0 Exemplar Errant Seneschal - PC: 0 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Errants - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 THEME: Exemplar Interdiction --- This is similar to what I want my list to look like. But instead of the Reckoner I'm going to take a Guardian. That way you have the arc node for slinging his upkeeps around or getting interesting angles on Force Hammer. It's a little slower but I think Assail will help, especially with the 2" deployment zone extension.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Nov 2, 2017 14:27:14 GMT
Ok, so I have another three games under my belt with him and the list. To recap, the list is;
War Room Army
Protectorate of Menoth - Intercessor Kreoss
Theme: Exemplar Interdiction 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Intercessor Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
High Exemplar Gravus - PC: 9 - High Exemplar Gravus (Continued) Exemplar Warder Elias Gade - PC: 0 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Exemplar Errant Seneschal - PC: 0
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Exemplar Errants - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
THEME: Exemplar Interdiction ---
GENERATED : 11/02/2017 10:01:34 BUILD ID : 2052.17-10-13
I played into Gaspy1, losing on scenario in Standoff. It wasn't a clear cut loss, requiring a lot of work from the cryx player to clear the zones needed, and leaving the cryx player on fifty seconds.
Played into makeda2 with two units of karax and a unit of ferox in masters of war. Such a deadly list, and such a confounding problem dealing with cats with the various speed buffs available. I got assassinated by a vector I didn't see coming, despite having a relatively good understanding of them, and having arcane ward up on Kreoss.
Last game was into bradigus, whose general schtick (along with all the rest of circle) centers around really weird movement for his army. My opponent spent about half an hour meticulously setting up this assassination run, going backwards and forwards as we had to check rules and interactions. It was fairly shaky and very reliant on everything doing its job, rolling above or around average, which of course it didn't. Eventually after everything had activated there was still the Errant Seneschal hanging around blocking the heavy stone beast from getting near kreoss, so of course he trampled in, got his attacks but did a sneeze of damage, and the master plan fell flat. At that point he clocked to me with something like 20 seconds and conceded, seeing as his caster was within distance of Fire of Salvation and the entire unit of vengers.
Things I've learned:
The list will crumple if you can't hand out the alpha, and it will struggle to hold its own at attrition, which means you need to measure out resources really carefully to not over commit anywhere.
I've been playing in a very flat formation- errants up front to absorb and jam, with a unit of vengers on each flank. Turn one sees errants run to mid/edges of zones, vengers position to be around 13" or out of threat from anything close and generally in a place where they can clear a zone if called to it. If I'm feeling less cautious I'll let one drift a tad close to the front lines to try to bait the enemy out to strengthen up the vengers as they hit as hard as warjacks with ignite, divine inspiration, and battle driven, and one lost venger to draw an entire unit or a jack into threat AND strengthen the unit is a good trade.
This is how I've been playing it so far. It was suggested to me that Kreoss should play in a less central position, almost flanking and wheeling with the vengers on a flank. This reminds me a lot of playing Amon or Butcher2 where you never quite know where your caster is going to end up at the end of the turn.
What has come across to me as very handy is the spray from the crevasse which I have been using to free up tangled cavalry, generally sacrificing a choir member to do so.
I have not yet used force hammer, which is funny because a lot of other players have found real uses for it. Will need more experiments.
I will be changing up the list to add in the Guardian over the Reckoner, as I've found the lack of an arc node sometimes difficult to manage.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Nov 4, 2017 17:36:04 GMT
Hearing that the list crumples too easily weighs on one of my major K3 issues: that double vengers might be a trap. They're tough, but not THAT tough, and quite expensive per model.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Kreoss 3
Nov 5, 2017 7:17:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hashmal on Nov 5, 2017 7:17:32 GMT
They are hardly a trap. It is better to ask yourself what role you see them playing in a Kreoss3 list, and are you playing to their strengths by doing so?
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Kreoss 3
Nov 5, 2017 7:42:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by regleant on Nov 5, 2017 7:42:14 GMT
Force Hammer is a great spell, but the randomness is too high and the POW too low for the cost. I used it to knock Hutchuk out of a zone, and needed anything higher than a 1 to score that point. I rolled a 1. And then did 1 boosted Damage. Not great...
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Kreoss 3
Nov 6, 2017 17:35:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hashmal on Nov 6, 2017 17:35:49 GMT
I respectfully disagree. There is a random element to it, yes. However, Force Hammer is a non-linear threat vector that can enable game-ending plays. It should be expensive.
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Post by chillychinaman on Nov 6, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
I respectfully disagree. There is a random element to it, yes. However, Force Hammer is a non-linear threat vector that can enable game-ending plays. It should be expensive. True, but I think people would prefer something more consistent like say, d3+1" instead of d6, at least for the slam distance. I agree that the POW is rather low even if it slams on hit.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 6, 2017 20:13:10 GMT
No doubt that the POW is on the weenie side. However, the flexibility of being able to slam your own models over opposing ones (namely Warcasters/Warlocks) really turns on an assassination vector that a lot of armies lost access too when power attacks against friendly models were restricted. It is also one of the only non-linear assassination vectors the Protectorate has access to and can be trivially easy to set up on Kreoss3, as he already encourages fast, large-based Cavalry models in his list building. One of the limiting factors to this assassination is that, in order to "guarantee" the knockdown from the slam, you have to have a model within 1" of the KD target. This applies a net +2 to the hit roll (+4 for being in melee, -2 for back strike), making it not necessarily a sure thing.
It still might be too expensive, but I am comfortable with it at 4. Scourge, on the other hand...
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