ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 28, 2017 7:20:54 GMT
Nice report. I do have one question. Did the stone have any significant impact in any of your games so far?
If not, why not replace it with something else
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Oct 30, 2017 5:38:05 GMT
Thanks for the report! Borka 1 is always a reasonable caster imo. Well worth spending some time with. Your list seem to be 4 points over the limit though some how... I cant build it in Conflict chamber...EDIT: Nope, i just cant read Borka 1 was one of my regular casters on MK2 and on very early MK3 (before theme forces) I played similar list but then tiers came and I feld Borka didn't have home on them so I played mostly Grissel2, Ragnor (mostly becouse there was champions tournament coming ahead) and Menoth. I also played some games with Borka1 on PoD but feld that was not his place. But It was really pleasant to play Borka now with infantry and new mosh pit. I too have time problem because of baby, so my challenge may take whole month.
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Post by Hotwater on Oct 30, 2017 15:32:37 GMT
Nice report. I do have one question. Did the stone have any significant impact in any of your games so far? If not, why not replace it with something else I've made good use of spirit chaser on a few occasions with my kriel company lists, but the Grim1 list isn't terribly dependent on it. I've considered swapping some points around to get two thumpers in the list for two extra POW 16s.
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Post by Sarcastastic on Oct 30, 2017 17:56:14 GMT
I'm really trying to hammer out a good Grissel2 list in BoH. I'm thinking I've got it to my liking, but maybe I'm missing something you wise trolls can help me with. Not entirely sure on the battlegroup, but happy I got all my duders in. Considered switching Runebearer for the Chronicler.
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes
(Grissel 2) Grissel Bloodsong, Marshal of the Kriels [+27] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Long Riders (max) [20] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 30, 2017 18:47:02 GMT
@sarcastatic I'd probably take the Mauler down to a bouncer, and think about a champ hero or bellows crew. I'd like to know how you usually deploy that, I don't own long riders but am thinking about getting them, so I'm trying to figure out a bit of how they work in advance.
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Post by Sarcastastic on Oct 30, 2017 18:57:12 GMT
@sarcastatic I'd probably take the Mauler down to a bouncer, and think about a champ hero or bellows crew. I'd like to know how you usually deploy that, I don't own long riders but am thinking about getting them, so I'm trying to figure out a bit of how they work in advance. I have definitely considered downgrading the Mauler. As for deployment, champs and fenns up the middle on either side of the BG and caster with Long Riders on a flank, all of this of course tailored to terrain set up and if I go first or not. Nothing too fancy. Usually I'll park the Bomber on a hill if I can (I've been lucky to have one on my side of deployment my last few games)
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Post by Sarcastastic on Oct 31, 2017 3:40:05 GMT
So got to put it on the table tonight. Between rebuke and arcanas that prevent giving orders, as well as a healthy dose of Murder Crows, none of my infantry got off sufficient charges and accomplished very little. BUT! That's where Grissel truly shines. Her and the Bomber both got angles on The Heretic, and my opponent didn't camp enough for 5 boosted shots.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 31, 2017 6:53:18 GMT
So got to put it on the table tonight. Between rebuke and arcanas that prevent giving orders, as well as a healthy dose of Murder Crows, none of my infantry got off sufficient charges and accomplished very little. BUT! That's where Grissel truly shines. Her and the Bomber both got angles on The Heretic, and my opponent didn't camp enough for 5 boosted shots. PPL often talk about placing shooty things on hills, or using Janissa to place a hill where you "need" it. Do you actually need it though? I do not think it has come up more than a handful of times in a hundred games that i actually needed to shoot past something at something i couldnt see. Does anchoring your Bomber to a hill (that you can not move) really accomplish anything? I mean, if there is a hill where i want my bomber, superb! +2 DEF against shooting. But placing my bomber some where just because there is a hill there sounds sub optimal to me. About dropping the mauler. Replacing it with a Bouncer means the list is WAY more tailored against specific match ups. It will be good to have against Ghost Fleet (no knockdown and a Shield Guard will be super nice there) but you will be way weaker against a list that contains an armored presence. Not only because the Mauler can kill stuff, but also because Rage enables your Bomber to one round most heavies in melee. So if you do, think carefully about what match ups you target so the pairing remains strong. As a list that you "play in to anything" i think the Mauler version is stronger.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 31, 2017 7:54:06 GMT
My use for janissa and her portable hill is for early stages hill + bellows crew equals def 20 vs shooting on grim and def 14 for mulg. This gets me in to position without having to care much about shooting.
Late stages, she shifts to disengage my heavies.
And when no longer reauired she can charge for the armor piercing attack.
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Post by Sarcastastic on Oct 31, 2017 14:01:09 GMT
So got to put it on the table tonight. Between rebuke and arcanas that prevent giving orders, as well as a healthy dose of Murder Crows, none of my infantry got off sufficient charges and accomplished very little. BUT! That's where Grissel truly shines. Her and the Bomber both got angles on The Heretic, and my opponent didn't camp enough for 5 boosted shots. PPL often talk about placing shooty things on hills, or using Janissa to place a hill where you "need" it. Do you actually need it though? I do not think it has come up more than a handful of times in a hundred games that i actually needed to shoot past something at something i couldnt see. Does anchoring your Bomber to a hill (that you can not move) really accomplish anything? I mean, if there is a hill where i want my bomber, superb! +2 DEF against shooting. But placing my bomber some where just because there is a hill there sounds sub optimal to me. About dropping the mauler. Replacing it with a Bouncer means the list is WAY more tailored against specific match ups. It will be good to have against Ghost Fleet (no knockdown and a Shield Guard will be super nice there) but you will be way weaker against a list that contains an armored presence. Not only because the Mauler can kill stuff, but also because Rage enables your Bomber to one round most heavies in melee. So if you do, think carefully about what match ups you target so the pairing remains strong. As a list that you "play in to anything" i think the Mauler version is stronger. The Bomber on the hill has really only ever been out of convenience. Also to partly discourage shooting retaliations. People see hill and think "harder to hit" sometimes without acknowledging that def 14 isn't really that bad, though with Grissel that can be 16, so it actually works out sometimes, but keeping him out of the way also means I keep him til late game where he can be a bulky lane blocker and bodyguard. I definitely agree on the Mauler front, I feel naked without one. Like was shown in my game last night, if I'm denied my charges, I'm not pulling a lot of weight with my infantry heavy hitters, so the Mauler is security for that.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 31, 2017 17:10:34 GMT
Yes, I'd had the same problem in my Madrak1 boh list. I've swapped out around to include a Mauler for the five games after my next five in PoD. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my list!
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 31, 2017 17:39:10 GMT
Does janyssas hill have a particular height requirement? Could you technically make it high enough to block LOS? Make a 5" high hill and block LOS/
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 31, 2017 18:12:38 GMT
It now elevates models completely within 1", instead of being terrain. Reading it I'm not entirely clear on what happens if they are already on a hill. It looks like they'd be lifted another inch, but it may be that it could be interpreted as models completely with are at 1"elevation. I don't think it is on closer grammatical examination, but that's an argument that I can see being made.
I'm curious about the interaction with restrain already on the table. Walls shouldn't matter because you are elevated above them, but buildings and water and rubble are still slightly open. I love raising a chunk of a lake up, but I'm not clear how it will work for a swamp troll now.
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Post by Hotwater on Nov 1, 2017 20:22:46 GMT
Another game with Grim1, this time I took out the stone and switched around my free points to fit a pummeler. I have to say I actually felt pretty good about not having the stone in this particular list.
Grim Angus - Runebearer - Bomber - Bomber War Wagon Braylen Bushwhackers - Officer & Mortar Highwaymen Scouts Pummeler & Crew Thumper & Crew
Game 3
The scenario was Outlast into Scaverous in the satyxis theme, so all the satyxis plus a crowe's cuttthroats and Wrongeye & Snapjaw. I won the roll and decided to try going first especially since terrain wouldn't be much of a hinderance to this theme. My opponent sticks to their side of the board which gave them some forests to hide behind. I deploy the bushwhackers centrally, the highwaymen to my left and the war wagon on the right side with the scouts. Grim, his battlegroup, and the artillery deploy centrally behind the bushwhackers. She deploys heavily to the left side and leaves the bloodwitches off the table for ambushing.
Round 1 I run everything forward aggressively, the wagon and the scouts are as far forward as possible, with a thumper tailing behind. Highwaymen run, bushwhackers move forward and the mortar takes a shot at the one cuttthroat he can see, hoping for a good deviation and I get it, drifting directly onto 3 more crowes, killing 4 giving me first blood. This ideal deviation thing is going to be a trend this game. So I move up the pummeler fire at something out of range, drifts near the crowes and the second AOE drifts on to them, killing one more. My opponent and I are a little surprised at my deviations at this point. Grim moves up puts weald secrets on the bushwhackers and return fire on himself and the bombers and camps 2. I put two bombers in each circle zone and pass my turn.
My opponent runs the raiders up behind the forest on the left side putting some into the forests, and do the no blast damage prayer. crowes move up and and take some potshots at the bushwhackers, missing 3 and then I made two tough checks then they repo back toward the center. Wrongeye and snapjaw run forward behind the house in the center and prep for a counterstrike. Bone chickens run for ideal arcnoding on stuff and then Erebus runs toward the war wagon staying just out of charging threat. Scaverous activates and puts and upkeep on the scouts that prevents charges (icey grip?) and moves forward centrally. other models move forward but try to to put too much in threat of the bushwhackers.
Round 2 I move Grim up to the flag, feat and catch most the army in the area, takes a shot at a bone chicken and bossing the roll almost one-shotting the thing, then the rest of the army proceeds to clear the table. This was basically a massacre. Bushwhackers move forward and CRA into some raiders killing a few. The mortar takes out the entire unit of satyxis gunsligners on a boxcars roll. Highwaymen move forward and kill 5 more raiders on needing 8's in several cases and bossing the rolls leaving 4 left alive after they were done. Bomber moves up and kills the bonechicken and then tosses another at the remaining crowes, leaving just Crowe alive. Scouts move up and toss axes, clearing a lane for the wagon, tossing axes the remaining bone chicken results in doing 3 misses and pretty large damage roll from the last guy. Wagon charges the wounded bone chicken and kills it outright, shoots erebus, clipping snapjaw AND scaverous but only doing minimal damage, then it repos back putting some of the scouts in the way. Pummeler shoots at the raiders and misses deviating away from eveything. Thumper runs around a forest on the right side and positions for next turn, along with a Bomber who ran through the forest to get to a decent counter punch spot.
My opponent ambushes the bloodwitches and shakes the knockdown, Erebus , and the bloodwitches are the only things that can charge so they start with those, erebus does about 29pts of damage to the wagon and snapjaw kills a couple scouts and snacks, wrongeye moves to the flag and puts up starcrossed and submerge. Scaverous activates and feats, tossing some spells around and manages to not kill a thing. Bloodwitches and raiders kill 6 highwaymen and they pass the turn, I go up 1-0, because my bushwhackers that were supposed to die didn't and contested the flag wrongeye was camping.
Round 3 I activate Grim, put up farstrike aim and shoot the one incorporeal bloodwitch in the left zone, put weald secrets on the bomber to my right and camp the flag. The Wagon wiggles around Erebus and melee's him, slamming him into Snapjaw, does a decent amount of damage and puts both of them on their butts, I shoot at erebus almost putting some more damage on him and then spray across the two doing no damage to either. I then repo back 3" into the zone. Thumper shoots Erebus doing some damage, Scouts charge and kill him thanks to Gang, the Bomber charges Snapjaw and kills him clearing that zone and scoring it. Pummeler aims, and kills a few bloodwitches with deviations, then the bushwhackers go and kill a few more witches the remaining raiders while keeping a model or two within 4" of the opposing flag. Mortar kills one witch, then the highwaymen clean up the rest that weren't incorporeal. I clear that left zone and I go up 4-0.
My opponent concedes due to having less than 5 models on the table and no spell assasination vectors.
At first this matchup seemed relatively even, but dice rolled in my favor and it quickly turned into a one sided battle really fast.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2017 7:29:25 GMT
Neat.
How do you like the Highwaymen with him? On paper they seem good (he can help them hit, and Hunter is nice too) but i always find that highwaymen without Snipe just do not get to do work due to the short range of the guns. How do you find them?
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