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Post by rubicon on Mar 25, 2017 15:12:26 GMT
So vlad 2 seems super strong right now, and the list doesn't appear to change very much, double eliminators, full MoW ST boat, WGRC and rockets, conquest and Saxon.
My question is, in the most basic terms, how does it work, what is its win condition, what does it struggle with?
Any help much appreciated
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Vlad2
Mar 25, 2017 15:25:29 GMT
Post by sand20go on Mar 25, 2017 15:25:29 GMT
I ran it last week. It is "OK" but struggles with volume of attacks so you have to think about that. I think it is generally best approached as an assisination list.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Vlad2
Mar 25, 2017 17:38:26 GMT
Post by Growl on Mar 25, 2017 17:38:26 GMT
I actually like Vlad2 with double Drakhuns and a unit of Outriders along with the Eliminators and then Manhunter boat for terrain shenanigans. I have used Ruin and Marauder with him along with Greylords and Koldun Lord. I think I have won every game I've played with him, they number in the THOUSANDS! (Kidding of course!) I think I am like 8 and 1 or something, my only recent loss that I will post up soon, really was just bad playing on my part against a good opponent which is always a recipe for disaster.
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Vlad2
Mar 26, 2017 16:37:27 GMT
Post by KingoftheNorth on Mar 26, 2017 16:37:27 GMT
So vlad 2 seems super strong right now, and the list doesn't appear to change very much, double eliminators, full MoW ST boat, WGRC and rockets, conquest and Saxon. My question is, in the most basic terms, how does it work, what is its win condition, what does it struggle with? Any help much appreciated It doesn't change much because if it ain't broke don't fix it
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Vlad2
Mar 26, 2017 16:41:42 GMT
Post by KingoftheNorth on Mar 26, 2017 16:41:42 GMT
I ran it last week. It is "OK" but struggles with volume of attacks so you have to think about that. I think it is generally best approached as an assisination list. It threatens assassination but is actually best as an attrition list. You shoot on approach Feat, go in and wreck a bunch of his key pieces and have Kayazy be annoying, continue shooting Now you've traded your feat for some heavy hitters or scary pieces and still have a Conquest sitting back who against lots of lists is immortal Because of the threat projection of the feat on Shocks and Kayazy most lists have a hard time getting to the Rifles at all and they'll be around all game. So late game leaves you with R&R and a Conquest. Feels good.
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Post by chickenslayer on Mar 27, 2017 2:04:02 GMT
Pretty much. The list is quite flexible since you can basically dice-fix however you please, plus you have long threat ranges on all the best feat models. Also since you've got two defense extremes in the form of Kayazy and Shocktroopers, you can feat and present models that are the most annoying for your opponent to deal with.
Usually you aim to feat and take the biggest threat off the table with either Shocktroopers or Eliminators as appropriate, whilst keeping up a steady stream of fire at stuff. You have a Conquest to anchor the list and randomly throw people across the park. And against any list which have infantry weak to the secondary batteries you can comfortably Mulch them. Hand of Fate Riflemen + a Conquest is a solid shooting package into almost any matchup too.
List is weakest against extreme skews I find or casters who can freeze models, particularly the Shocktroopers. The freezing weakness is kinda obvious. The skew weakness is because by nature Vlad tends to make balanced lists and with all these tier bonuses flying around it can get hard to compete with 120+ points of jack spam with rules. You also do run the risk of getting diced at times since models like Shock Troopers are very high impact if they survive: if your opponent randomly kills them with gun shots you'll feel very sad.
However you can play into almost anything with eVlad and make a game of it, which is to his strength. It's nice to base a pairing around and feel like you have a solid anchor caster with game into most stuff.
Also, to anyone who hasn't done it. Feat on a unit of shock troopers. Give them Hand of Face. Charge them. Enjoy Results.
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Vlad2
Mar 27, 2017 9:00:44 GMT
Post by skathrex on Mar 27, 2017 9:00:44 GMT
Ah, I was worried it was gone, but we can still summon chickenslayer if we just open a Vlad2 thread. Its like a magical portal to a world of good Khador Players Now that I have you here its time for another question round. At a local 2-day Steamroller (around 50 players) I played your List (or todays go-to-Vlad2 list), and had a really good time (played him 5 times, 1 of which may be the wrong choice). However I lost 2 games with him and it was all your fault! Just kidding. But to be honest 1 game I played against Haley2 (of course in the pit) and I really missed Orin Midwinter. Had a talk with another Khador player (who also run you list, but modified with Orin) and we weren't really sure why not. Of course points are not really available, but the question remained against cryx or Haley etc if Orin wouldn't be worth it. (and since I suck with Eliminators the switch is really tempting)
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 0:18:55 GMT
Post by chickenslayer on Mar 29, 2017 0:18:55 GMT
Basically, I like Eliminators more than Vlad for the raw power and feat potential they bring but it's a change actually one of our locals makes with a very similar list (we kinda worked on Vlad 2 concurrently and it was his initial suggestion to include the Conquest over Behemoth + X). But yes it's a valid swap.
Personally for Haley I find I don't care about 1 round of Thorn Schenanigans if you can set it up such that Thorn Dies the turn after he arcs spells. Orin does make the Shock Trooper brick an absolute bastard to deal with though.
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 1:42:57 GMT
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 29, 2017 1:42:57 GMT
I had a team of Shocktroopers destroy a Prime Axiom over 4 turns. It was amazing.
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 4:06:01 GMT
Post by Voodoogk on Mar 29, 2017 4:06:01 GMT
List is weakest against extreme skews I find or casters who can freeze models, particularly the Shocktroopers. The freezing weakness is kinda obvious. The skew weakness is because by nature Vlad tends to make balanced lists and with all these tier bonuses flying around it can get hard to compete with 120+ points of jack spam with rules. You also do run the risk of getting diced at times since models like Shock Troopers are very high impact if they survive: if your opponent randomly kills them with gun shots you'll feel very sad. So I'm reading this thread because I'm considering running v2 as a list pair. I ran a similar list back in mk2, minus shocks, and i've played him in mk3 once or twice as well... But this illustrates my concern. So in an area where 5 heavies is really the bare minimum do yall think this is even playable? I get how the list works, what its strengths are, and its real versatile.. but it seems like 6-8 heavies is out of reach for this list. Obviously it's still got it's well known asssassination, vlad himself is a complete boss.. but if I have to drop it into 8 heavies am I going to lose anyway? I just don't see getting this list to even take out 6 before the conquest gets brought down.
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 4:21:28 GMT
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 29, 2017 4:21:28 GMT
He is actually pretty workable. I have had good times against even Convergence of Cyriss Lists. You just gotta mix up your heavy infantry.
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 5:24:48 GMT
Post by chickenslayer on Mar 29, 2017 5:24:48 GMT
What saves it is that Vlad usually controls the game against those casters. In general, Vlad out-threats and out-shoots most lists spamming heavies. So in those cases it's about getting a solid feat and a decent follow up to win: pushing scenario if needs must since he has models better at contesting or spreading than most jack/beast spammers. However you must set the agenda as Vlad during the game. Because yea, if you get into a random boxing match with like Harkevich or Karchev you'll probably eventually lose.
But in general, it's rare that there's a game where you have no chance as Vlad, which is one of his strengths and why he makes my pairing. Between Wind Blast, feat, Hand of Fate dice fixing and the ability to keep "charging" with models using Transference there's a lot of tricks you can throw in the mix.
In general I feel Amon is one of the biggest problems problem due to his denial, but I have won that matchup when I've played it. Worst I think was eMagnus in Kingmaker: that was a bastard of a game due to his feat and quality of jacks he could bring to the table. And his free points as icing on the cake.
It should be also noted that Fiyana beast heavy with the new theme is making waves and Vlad counters her quite effectively.
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Vlad2
Mar 29, 2017 7:58:57 GMT
Post by skathrex on Mar 29, 2017 7:58:57 GMT
Thx again for the input. I think I will change it up, partially because I want to learn how to play with the Eliminators (I rarely feat on them), but I think Orin is pretty valuable, because that 1 Round that Thorn prevented me to go to the flag, was the 1 Turn 1 needed to win.
I feel the List isn't bad against Heavys. I think it struggles a bit against ArmCracking Lists and/or Lists that are good against Shooting.(Had a bit of a Problem against Skorne). But the Attrition is still awesome. Rifle Corps with HoF are just plain awesome. The conquest forces opponents movement pretty well. Combined with the durability and Threat from the MoW the List really forces opponents into what you want.
The versatility of the List was one of the Reasons I always chose it, because when in doubt Vlad2 works.
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Vlad2
Mar 31, 2017 4:00:53 GMT
Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 31, 2017 4:00:53 GMT
I think Chris makes a good point re jackspam. The one time I've played into this list was at Captaincon in the team tournament. I dropped Karchev, all the jacks, and a Gun Carraige. I won that game. Vlad struggles in this matchup if your opponent can dictate some early piece trading. Once I was able to get a Marauder onto the Conquest, it was game over.
I don't think this is an auto lose for the Vlad player, but you do need to use your ranged attacks to get some stuff off the table early on.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Vlad2
Apr 5, 2017 10:56:18 GMT
Post by zeffid on Apr 5, 2017 10:56:18 GMT
I've been playing with Vladimir 2 since the beginning of MK3 and I'm completely satisfied with the experience. If played right he can out flank the heavy ARM and take them piecemeal. There are options in his list that skew him to better play this or that matchup. But the basic choices are pretty much the same mentioned above. I want to try him out in Iron Fang theme but I feel he is loosing versatility there.
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