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Post by insyderznf on Mar 24, 2017 20:43:16 GMT
Competition is good, except in our area im the only one pushing PP stuff and 40k is starting to take hold again. I dont have as much time as the 40k group that are running multiple demos every weekend. Now i wish i would have kept one of my armies....
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Post by lawbringer on Mar 24, 2017 20:43:37 GMT
I don't really get the fanboys coming out in force (not here obviously, but elsewhere) to scream "GOLDEN AGE! GOLDEN AGE! GAMES WORKSHOP IS #1 AGAIN!"
The bar was set SO low down that pretty much anything they did would be a plus. All that I've seen is more Space Marine releases into a system where everything not wearing power armour was horribly ignored (barring Eldar), the balance is still an absolute joke and I'm still not going to forgive them anytime soon for killing Fantasy all so they had an excuse to put Space Marines in a non-40k setting.
What infuriates me is the timing. WHFB's death was the major shove many people needed to finally ditch GW and actually risk dipping their toes into systems that didn't have Warhammer in the title. Now they're already clawing over one another to get back to painting power armour and self-flagellating themselves for ever leaving Daddy GW. The stranglehold that GW had was finally breaking and games like Warmahordes/Infinity/Malifaux were actually being played by more curious newbies who weren't so terrified they'd not have people to play with... and now that's losing traction.
What have they done to inspire such confidence? They finally realised leaks will always get out and put them on their website instead, they released a couple of fan service armies (Genestealer Cults and Mechanicus), and they put out a couple of Start Collecting(!) boxes that give you a decent discount but are still pricey for what you get. Woohoo?
Of course 'all' of this comes at a time PP has made a couple of stupid, but high profile decisions, which is now being taken as the bait by every single smug GW fanboy to scream "SEE! PP SUCKS! GW IS THE BEST! PLEASE FEED ME MORE BOLTER PORN, DADDY-WARD!"
Yes, I'm still bitter over WHFB if that wasn't obvious.
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Post by cainuslupus on Mar 24, 2017 22:26:10 GMT
I don't really get the fanboys coming out in force (not here obviously, but elsewhere) to scream "GOLDEN AGE! GOLDEN AGE! GAMES WORKSHOP IS #1 AGAIN!" The bar was set SO low down that pretty much anything they did would be a plus. All that I've seen is more Space Marine releases into a system where everything not wearing power armour was horribly ignored (barring Eldar), the balance is still an absolute joke and I'm still not going to forgive them anytime soon for killing Fantasy all so they had an excuse to put Space Marines in a non-40k setting. What infuriates me is the timing. WHFB's death was the major shove many people needed to finally ditch GW and actually risk dipping their toes into systems that didn't have Warhammer in the title. Now they're already clawing over one another to get back to painting power armour and self-flagellating themselves for ever leaving Daddy GW. The stranglehold that GW had was finally breaking and games like Warmahordes/Infinity/Malifaux were actually being played by more curious newbies who weren't so terrified they'd not have people to play with... and now that's losing traction. What have they done to inspire such confidence? They finally realised leaks will always get out and put them on their website instead, they released a couple of fan service armies (Genestealer Cults and Mechanicus), and they put out a couple of Start Collecting(!) boxes that give you a decent discount but are still pricey for what you get. Woohoo? Of course 'all' of this comes at a time PP has made a couple of stupid, but high profile decisions, which is now being taken as the bait by every single smug GW fanboy to scream "SEE! PP SUCKS! GW IS THE BEST! PLEASE FEED ME MORE BOLTER PORN, DADDY-WARD!" Yes, I'm still bitter over WHFB if that wasn't obvious. I'm not GW advocate, but they've done stuff that makes sense and people wanted: - released tourney rules/points for AoS - dropped price points for their stuff - released new edition od Blood Bowl, 30K games, new armies that people wanted. Comparing price and quality of GW and PP products right now... It's just sad TBH. Also, I see Malifaux and Guild Ball being still healthy where I live and WarmaHordes is in OK place thanks to our PressGanger. Still, some people are concerned about future of the game.
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Post by gunndrakcapthide on Mar 24, 2017 22:55:32 GMT
GW's new CEO has really turned the company around. Kevin Rountree is his name. It's about time they forced out that dinosaur Tom Kirby. The man seemed to go out of his way to make foolish decisions (he once proudly claimed that GW did no user research, which, as a UX specialist, is idiotic). Unfortunately he remains on the board since he is a stockholder, but based on what GW has done (board and specialist games, user outreach, and prices to a small extent with Start Collecting and holiday bundles) he probably doesn't have as much influence anyone.
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Post by HeadHunter on Mar 25, 2017 5:35:27 GMT
I'm starting to wonder if GW and PP maybe just swapped their executives.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 27, 2017 16:12:25 GMT
TBH IMO GW are absolutely killing it right now in the world of toy soldiers. Which makes me even more frustrated with the recent approach from PP. They had such a good position in the market and it feels that since the slightly rushed release of Mk3 they have totally failed to capitalise and get more people playing the game. Just after the release of Mk3 loads of people I know got themselves starter sets. Most of them put them aside or sold them on after PP stumbled with the ball and then GW have surged back. I'm not "anti GW", id just would have hoped that PP could have continued their growth. For me, the turning point happened when I decided I wanted a new team for the Spike tournament in August. I went to get some new Dwarfs without considering price, saw the forty dollar (Canadian) price tag (thirty four at a store that discounts locally), and had to do a double check. It was indeed that price, it was indeed GW. No need to belabor the point by going on about comparing the models to the ones I have recently purchased from PP. Fluff wise, they are releasing the stuff people have asked about for years-- thirty k space marines??? Going back and giving AOS stuff points. What the heck, did the entire board of directors get abducted by aliens and lobotomized? Their marketing strategy seems to have ditched some of the stupidity that killed them in the past. Now they are allowing online stores to use regular shopping carts again. I still intend to stay with PP for the time being-- playing both companies' games. I do think that they need to up their game though, in order to keep up. Their games ran GW mostly out of the market in my area five or six years ago. That is no longer the case currently. I had a small Space Marine army before switching over here, and I look at them a lot more often recently...still not enough to consider going back, but I have considered finishing up the painting.
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Post by CodFather on Mar 27, 2017 22:54:39 GMT
I've been outta GW games for over 5 years. With these new changes are their games actually good? As in well supported, decent internal and external balance, and able to be played competitively without people screaming "CHEESE!"?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 28, 2017 8:53:03 GMT
It seems that PP learns nothing to GW.
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Xarlaxas
Junior Strategist
Hoards models more than he plays.
Posts: 192
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Post by Xarlaxas on Mar 28, 2017 9:07:29 GMT
Yeah, not only is GW coming back to online (they didn't leave in the UK, but that's a different matter) but they've been working really hard with their social media aspect, no forum though, and their coverage of Adepticon, for example, was pretty entertaining. It looks like their near leadership is pushing the social angle really hard, and they are definitely listening to their community, even making fun of themselves in their videos. After AoS, I never thought I'd be tempted to get back into GW stuff, but they're doing a really good job of luring me back in. Just need to find the time to play *any* games. I think that their push on "board games" that use the minis for their main lines is really clever. You can get some pretty damn good deals for like 40-100 quid and just play with those, and expand them later.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 28, 2017 9:32:10 GMT
Their boxed game sets are definitely a great move on GW's part. I was a huge GW fan up until about 3 years ago but then I just couldn't stand their business practices any more. However, boxes like Betrayal at Calth saw me buying in again as I always loved the 30k setting. Great value in the box and I now find myself expanding on that force with increasing pace.
When I started Warmahordes, it was as a GW refugee as I guess it was for many players. PP offered a tighter ruleset and it was seemingly cheaper and more accessible. I didn't think I'd ever go back to GW - and that's after being a loyal GW customer for 20 years. Now though, GW don't seem all that expensive compared to PP and they're definitely making real efforts.
I still love Warmahordes and will continue to play, but my budget goes only so far, and GW are earning more of it than PP at the moment.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 28, 2017 10:55:55 GMT
I completely agree maVoo - I am eagerly awaiting Armageddon: Shadow War to relive my necromunda glory days ; but now with my son. Oddly enough I was planning on teaching him battle box games with his own for his birthday, until recent events. Then i saw the Necromunda reboot, and knew that was the direction i was going to go in. The box sets are a really brilliant idea. I also agree that the price gap has shortened somewhat. PP is still less expensive, but not 1/2 so like it was years ago. My problem is that currently i'm the least interested in WM/H than i've been in a while: i love the core rules, but the subset of core rules (competitive rule set, Theme lists, the slow grind to full digitization, the fact that until recently i've played games where someone played an entire turn out with widgets and proxy bases, the constant big swings in rule changes,) has me sorta "meh" on playing. I keep waiting for the proverbial dust to settle in MK3 so i can get back to enjoying the game and it just hasn't happened. Meanwhile my playgroup, of similar mindset, has taken up Dark Age, Malifaux, Frostgrave, Bolt Action, some of the new GW boxed games, and i keep being the sheepish guy that says "Oh just another few weeks, and WM/H will be back to base line and steady again." My playgroup is leery about buying anything that "seems good" because they think it will get nerfed in 3-4 months. Heck, i've stated publicly that i won't buy into spam lists anymore because I think they are a trap on a long enough time line . All of this is just making me sorta purse my lips towards WM/H currently. I keep hoping this new edition will get its house in order, but it keeps feeling like its trying to do too much too quickly without enough planning. Maybe i'm off on that, and maybe i'm too obtuse to see the forest for the trees or the big picture, but if so, that's 8 months of obtuseness and when do i concede that my inability to see the big picture is just that the big picture isn't my cup of tea anymore, or i'm no longer the target audience. Meanwhile, GW seems to be trying like hell to get my money with things that remind me of my halcyon days of tabletop gaming: Wanting to play out the Horus Heresy. PUtting genestealer cults on the table again. Adeptus mechanicus. Cypher (a personal love of mine: my very, very first DA army i pretended was led by non-chaos corrupted Fallen... you know like EVERY OTHER person that played DA! ) is back. When they killed fantasy off for AoS (which i was not a fan of) I never thought i'd spend another dime on GW products. Truly we live in strange times where the next 3 things coming out that i'm excited about are GW things...
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Mar 28, 2017 11:26:42 GMT
I completely agree maVoo - I am eagerly awaiting Armageddon: Shadow War to relive my necromunda glory days ; but now with my son. Oddly enough I was planning on teaching him battle box games with his own for his birthday, until recent events. Then i saw the Necromunda reboot, and knew that was the direction i was going to go in. The box sets are a really brilliant idea. Wait, they're rebooting Necromunda? Colour me interested in GW again.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 28, 2017 13:25:34 GMT
I'm a relatively new convert to tabletop gaming, so I don't have the history to fall back on, but the few experiences I had playing 40k were brutal and not particularly fun. At this point, I'm waiting for a ruleset that pulls me in, but that might be all that's missing.
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Post by W0lfBane on Mar 28, 2017 14:53:29 GMT
I was skimming through the Age of Cygnar (Cygmar) general rules and boy that layout is a mess. There is nothing intuitive about the way they arranged their chapters. This thread made me go maybe GW ain't as bad as people said but those roles made me go "NOPE "
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 28, 2017 17:16:26 GMT
Their boxed game releases have been killing it from what I can tell. New model releases are gorgeous. If Age of Sigmar wasn't such a bland game I would be way more involved with their company. As it stands, Ive been slowly selling off my tyranids and Haven't played a game of 40K in a long long time. I still play 8th edition fantasy with my brother and close friends though. We still have a blast with that. If blood bowl starts looking like it will keep getting releases I will most likely talk everyone into getting a team built In my experience the biggest issue with 40k is the player-base. Never have I had a fun game of 40K outside of my friends (who play narratively) I feel like I walk into a room and everyone has the "GET GUD" mentality for 40K. Warmachine and Hordes has never given me that vibe. I have a blast just about every game I play, I only have had one bad gaming experience in Warmahordes and that was a particularly jerky opponent who would not lighten up the entire game And that was way back in MK2!
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