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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 5, 2017 19:44:32 GMT
I hate PP. "We already released a sneak peek at Khador themes? Be fair and release another theme for another faction? Firetruck No! HAHAHA" privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-09-05-2017Man-o-war theme. 15 point man-o-war chariot auto-boosted machine gun, trampling... Man-o-war bombadiers get piles of extra rules. mechanics repair better Advance move for the battle engine and "tanker" models. New model type?? Yay 40k tanks. Totally won't be bonkers. [/all of my hate]
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 5, 2017 20:02:04 GMT
Its mediocre. The tanks wont be crazy.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 5, 2017 20:28:50 GMT
Tanker is probably a reference to the large base manowar models they teased at the keynote.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 5, 2017 21:04:06 GMT
Why is very theme in these insiders just straight up better than Secret Masters... Like come on PP can you stop rubbing it in that you don't know how to make circle interesting and effective...
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Post by oncomingstorm on Sept 5, 2017 22:32:36 GMT
Why is very theme in these insiders just straight up better than Secret Masters... Like come on PP can you stop rubbing it in that you don't know how to make circle interesting and effective... Honestly the problem with Circle is not something which can be fixed by theme benefits - in strict terms, the bonuses of secret masters aren't actually that bad (though there's a lack of mainline units that will hopefully be sorted with whatever new releases it gets.) The big problem with Secret Masters is that druids are shit. Mistriders are shit. So to get the bonuses, you need to take shit units. The only good models that count for points are the fulcrum (which can't be the only thing in your list) and the solos (which you want to get for free.) Add to that a general overcosting of Circle beasts, and a lack of the pricy solos other factions get as free options, and it's not great. But the problem isn't the theme benefits, it's the shitty models. Until and unless those go through a good round of CID, the theme benefits almost don't matter.
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Post by youlooklikeanail on Sept 5, 2017 22:36:56 GMT
I'm excited about the fixes to the Man O'War Bombardiers but I'd really like to see some love for the Demo Corps.
The renders of the tankers from the keynote just kinda leave me cold. They look way more 40k than WMH. I guess we'll see.
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faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on Sept 5, 2017 23:21:13 GMT
Can someone post the Tanker render? Memory is not clicking
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2017 14:34:57 GMT
My true annoyance came from the mountain of rules they are handing out to the bombadiers. I've played them more than I played shocktroopers. I liked them as they were. No they are going to be ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with the theme benefits. Pathfinder, quick work, dual shot minifeat, another gun for CRA, crit-shred. In a perfect turn, pathfinder charge, hit, crit, charge damage, kill, shred melee, kill, quickwork, kill... all x 6 models. Yes most of the stupidity in the insider comes from butcher's spells and feat ("I'm so mad I make guns shoot harder"). I get that Butcher is THE yard stick for damage output. But FFS...
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Post by Gamingdevil on Sept 6, 2017 14:36:19 GMT
My true annoyance came from the mountain of rules they are handing out to the bombadiers. I've played them more than I played shocktroopers. I liked them as they were. No they are going to be ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with the theme benefits. Pathfinder, quick work, dual shot minifeat, another gun for CRA, crit-shred. In a perfect turn, pathfinder charge, hit, crit, charge damage, kill, shred melee, kill, quickwork, kill... all x 6 models. Yes most of the stupidity in the insider comes from butcher's spells and feat ("I'm so mad I make guns shoot harder"). I get that Butcher is THE yard stick for damage output. But FFS... Keep in mind that all of this will still go through CID.
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Post by mikethefish on Sept 6, 2017 14:43:29 GMT
My true annoyance came from the mountain of rules they are handing out to the bombadiers. I've played them more than I played shocktroopers. I liked them as they were. No they are going to be ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with the theme benefits. Pathfinder, quick work, dual shot minifeat, another gun for CRA, crit-shred. In a perfect turn, pathfinder charge, hit, crit, charge damage, kill, shred melee, kill, quickwork, kill... all x 6 models. Yes most of the stupidity in the insider comes from butcher's spells and feat ("I'm so mad I make guns shoot harder"). I get that Butcher is THE yard stick for damage output. But FFS... I am glad that you had success with them - that is awesome. But I think you are wildly overestimating the state of their capabilities and power level to point ratio
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 6, 2017 15:05:45 GMT
My true annoyance came from the mountain of rules they are handing out to the bombadiers. I've played them more than I played shocktroopers. I liked them as they were. No they are going to be ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with the theme benefits. Pathfinder, quick work, dual shot minifeat, another gun for CRA, crit-shred. In a perfect turn, pathfinder charge, hit, crit, charge damage, kill, shred melee, kill, quickwork, kill... all x 6 models. Yes most of the stupidity in the insider comes from butcher's spells and feat ("I'm so mad I make guns shoot harder"). I get that Butcher is THE yard stick for damage output. But FFS... Awesome for you, but is it possible that people with different opinions exist? Bombardiers are slow, with a accuracy rate that misses defense 12 2/5 times meaning on avarage with a cost 16 unit you get only 3 succesful shots against even avarage defense. Also if your mad at "im angry so I shoot harder/ more accurately" then be mad at the entire hordes rulebook.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2017 15:35:08 GMT
Awesome for you, but is it possible that people with different opinions exist? Practice what you preach? You are literally discounting my play experience with your opinion. Being slow in a ton of armor is logical. Not being pinpoint accurate with an AoE grenade launcher is logical (not counting CRA fixing RAT). An average point cost is logical. They are not overpowered, they are logically designed and balanced. So from my experience they were balanced, now they are getting more powerful. That is discouraging and a bit annoying because it seems again that certain factions are getting power creep. And before you barf up "you think everything but your faction is overpowered" I just sold off most of my Khador because I was sick of how easy it was to roll with it. I know just how powerful Khador is right now.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 6, 2017 16:21:57 GMT
Practice what you preach? You are literally discounting my play experience with your opinion. Fair enough. So is flesh being weaker than metal, but doesn't stop lots of Legion stuff and Circle stuff from feeling flimsy or fragile at times (Heck Stone is very brittle and its made partly of wood. Let's lower its armor). You're using "Fluff" explanations for mechanical balance explanations. Just about every single one of your "Logical" examples could also have counter logic. Not that I'm necessarily demanding certain things (I don't want MOWs to be faster), but just because you have a reasoning (Thats very very arguable) for it, doesn't make it great in my book. So instead of addressing your "Fluff" reasons, I will address your crunch reasoning. You are correct CRAs correct for accuracy but also lose your shots. If I CRA once to raise my RAT I'm already taking away shots, even if it does come with a minor POW raise, but that just isn't as effective because you only have very few shots. The end result is a very short ranged threat range that's worth ALLOT of points, is fragile (To charging infantry or Jack Guns), slow, inaccurate, with a low amount of shots. This combines for a very small amount of solid targets for the points. So I guess Trolls and Circle shouldn't be getting buffs? Alright. You have your play experience I don't just see its logic. The Bombardiers are comparable to just about every Heavy Infantry with a gun, and its not really better in any way. And very few Heavy Infantry with guns sees any play as well. I don't see your logic how MOWs are "Crazy" with this stuff when nobody played them (Or other comparable heavy infantry) much at all.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 6, 2017 16:59:23 GMT
So I guess Trolls and Circle shouldn't be getting buffs? Alright. You have your play experience I don't just see its logic. The Bombardiers are comparable to just about every Heavy Infantry with a gun, and its not really better in any way. And very few Heavy Infantry with guns sees any play as well. I don't see your logic how MOWs are "Crazy" with this stuff when nobody played them (Or other comparable heavy infantry) much at all. I have no idea what the troll and circle mess comes from or what the point is supposed to be. You said it yourself that they are on par with other heavy infantry with guns. Therefore their current existence is balanced in the game right now. Just because the meta has run out anything but weapon master infantry doesn't mean that heavy infantry is bad. Yes it does indicate a disparity. But Trolls went through CID and I don't see their infantry getting a load of rules to make them super playable in the current meta. We've yet to see any indication of fixing Tharn and skin walkers. At this very moment in time the only thing we have confirmed as going into CID to get more rules are bombadiers. I'm not saying I don't want things like the bombadiers looked at. What I'm saying is models should not get inflated in power to compete with the socially constructed meta when they were delivered as "balanced". Heavy infantry doesn't compete against cheap jacks. They don't stand up to the disgusting powerful gun capability. And most don't have a theme. None of these are faults of the models or their design. If everyone played balanced list they could easily find a place. But that's not the nature of the game when it comes to tournaments. Which I understand is no reason to keep them dysfunctional. But if your point is to compete with jacks, why are they getting rules like quick work to trigger off killing infantry? If they are to be better into gunlines, why add more damage capability to short range guns on a slow platform? They aren't solving problems they are just pumping damage output into models carelessly that didn't have a place in lists to begin with. I also don't really like the awful time table that the CID is putting things in. You won't see those bombadier changes till next year just to test. Much less the additional models released or the updated rules. How long do we wait to play MK3 as a whole? Also, against the "fluff logic" ask PP how much they care about fluff being reflected in a model/rules.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 6, 2017 17:08:14 GMT
Therefore their current existence is balanced in the game right now. I just see your opinion as to nerf like 90% of the games stuff so the 10% of the stuff that doesn't see much play be "Balanced" Against it And I don't agree with it. Edit: The Salt Comment of Mine was rude and unjust so I removed it. Point being I don't think Bombardiers where ever good and they don't have good targets for their abilities PERIOD. Even if you completly removed WG and Destroyers out of Khador I would not be touching Bombardiers.
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