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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on Aug 8, 2017 17:49:15 GMT
privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-08-08-2017New insider! Not only does it detail the new Wolves of Winter theme for Khador, but it also reveals that there will be themes released in September for all factions, all models. Now note that these themes will go into CID in due time, with the associated new models being revealed then, but right now PP has come to the conclusion that "...given the importance of theme forces to the overall game experience and their significant role in army construction, we needed to fast-track the remaining theme force rules so that every model would have a theme force to call home." hence the September release of new theme forces.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 8, 2017 17:54:30 GMT
Fantastic news!
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Post by darkshroud on Aug 8, 2017 17:56:03 GMT
i feel like theyre just saying "ef it..."
they were super structured when mk3 came out. saying books with be a thing and how each theme would get its own book and that theyd all go through CID.
now, nah, just give it out. cancel the book idea. whats the worst that can happen? something completely unbalanced gets leaked we didnt catch and are forced to then errata?
why? take your time. its okay...
the point was bruoght up, i think..., that after adding a select number of mercs to themes then un-does all the testing they already did on the old themes.
it looks...messy. is all im saying.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 8, 2017 18:24:06 GMT
i feel like theyre just saying "ef it..." they were super structured when mk3 came out. saying books with be a thing and how each theme would get its own book and that theyd all go through CID. now, nah, just give it out. cancel the book idea. whats the worst that can happen? something completely unbalanced gets leaked we didnt catch and are forced to then errata? why? take your time. its okay... the point was bruoght up, i think..., that after adding a select number of mercs to themes then un-does all the testing they already did on the old themes. it looks...messy. is all im saying. There is a line I like to say when people complain about getting prototype parts made, and really its applicable to just about anything in life: "You can ask for: high quality, quick completion, or low costs. Pick two." You're raising a concern about the quality of the theme armies and how they will impact all of the other theme armies. That's a reasonable and understandable concern. Some people were complaining about not everyone having enough theme forces. That's understandable, they certainly were not coming out in a quick manner, were they. The last time I checked we are not being charged for these theme forces, so the price is certainly right. So, low price has already been picked, and it seems like you are opting for high quality over quick completion. Apparently too many other people picked quick completion. |
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Post by darkshroud on Aug 8, 2017 18:41:52 GMT
i feel like theyre just saying "ef it..." they were super structured when mk3 came out. saying books with be a thing and how each theme would get its own book and that theyd all go through CID. now, nah, just give it out. cancel the book idea. whats the worst that can happen? something completely unbalanced gets leaked we didnt catch and are forced to then errata? why? take your time. its okay... the point was bruoght up, i think..., that after adding a select number of mercs to themes then un-does all the testing they already did on the old themes. it looks...messy. is all im saying. There is a line I like to say when people complain about getting prototype parts made, and really its applicable to just about anything in life: "You can ask for: high quality, quick completion, or low costs. Pick two." You're raising a concern about the quality of the theme armies and how they will impact all of the other theme armies. That's a reasonable and understandable concern. Some people were complaining about not everyone having enough theme forces. That's understandable, they certainly were not coming out in a quick manner, were they. The last time I checked we are not being charged for these theme forces, so the price is certainly right. So, low price has already been picked, and it seems like you are opting for high quality over quick completion. Apparently too many other people picked quick completion. i 100% get that feeling when everyone else is getting cool toys and you arent and feel left out. ive been there. but asking a company to be sloppy and the company giving into it doesnt appear professional. theyre just asking for trouble. but, not my call. on the plus side, ill get the satyxis theme. so thatll be fun. |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 8, 2017 18:45:32 GMT
I'm glad for the release of remaining theme forces. Yay...
I am completely uninterested if the bonuses are all going to be rehashes of the existing themes. Wolves of Winter is just Oracles with only a single difference in the bonus free models (which is how Oracles should be anyway, but time will tell). If they cannot come up with meaningful bonuses outside of ambush, apparition, and extended deployment zones. Then I have no interest in themes. That's not to bash the existence of themes and start another witch hunt. I'm just saying this shit is getting real boring, real fast.
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Miafan
Junior Strategist
Eater of Brains
Posts: 130 
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Post by Miafan on Aug 8, 2017 18:57:36 GMT
And spend next 2-3 years CID'ing them out due to lack of playtesting and balancing. Good luck.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 8, 2017 19:00:37 GMT
There's definitely been a shift in what I've been playing based on what's in theme. Bringing out the missing themes will actually encourage different models to hit the table.
More themes = more list diversity.
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Post by darkshroud on Aug 8, 2017 19:16:12 GMT
More themes = more list diversity. i have a feeling it will lead to sloppy design. "they want themes, fine, here they are all of them have take x units get a solo/ua. cheap unit gets ambush. and here is a irrelevant thing for warjacks to consider while building a list that wont matter bc your too busy loading up on units" |
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Post by darkshroud on Aug 8, 2017 19:18:28 GMT
I am completely uninterested if the bonuses are all going to be rehashes of the existing themes. Wolves of Winter is just Oracles with only a single difference in the bonus free models (which is how Oracles should be anyway, but time will tell). If they cannot come up with meaningful bonuses outside of ambush, apparition, and extended deployment zones. Then I have no interest in themes. That's not to bash the existence of themes and start another witch hunt. I'm just saying this shit is getting real boring, real fast. this guy gets it |
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 8, 2017 19:22:47 GMT
This concerns me a lot. I liked the CiD process a lot and it has been IMO mostly effective. I have reservations about certain things but overall it has helped the community be more accepting of new releases. Giving us ownership over newly released models helps dissuade negativity.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Aug 8, 2017 20:37:17 GMT
i feel like theyre just saying "ef it..." they were super structured when mk3 came out. saying books with be a thing and how each theme would get its own book and that theyd all go through CID. now, nah, just give it out. cancel the book idea. whats the worst that can happen? something completely unbalanced gets leaked we didnt catch and are forced to then errata? why? take your time. its okay... ... it looks...messy. is all im saying. The reason why is because PP is trying to listen to their customers. Their challenge is that a certain vocal subset of the customers are loudly demanding many conflicting things, and it is impossible for them as a company to please them all. I think it will be good once these themes come out -- there will be a lot of models that are currently shelfwarmers that are going to hit the table, and some factions that don't have very good in-theme options to deal with certain bogeyman lists that require very specific counters. |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 8, 2017 22:07:56 GMT
I think it will be good for balance to get the themes released soon. Then they can be put into CID cycles to fine tune the balance, and make each theme a bit more unique. I love CID, but it makes sense to release themes faster.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 8, 2017 22:33:51 GMT
i feel like theyre just saying "ef it..." they were super structured when mk3 came out. saying books with be a thing and how each theme would get its own book and that theyd all go through CID. now, nah, just give it out. cancel the book idea. whats the worst that can happen? something completely unbalanced gets leaked we didnt catch and are forced to then errata? why? take your time. its okay... the point was bruoght up, i think..., that after adding a select number of mercs to themes then un-does all the testing they already did on the old themes. it looks...messy. is all im saying. There is a line I like to say when people complain about getting prototype parts made, and really its applicable to just about anything in life: "You can ask for: high quality, quick completion, or low costs. Pick two." You're raising a concern about the quality of the theme armies and how they will impact all of the other theme armies. That's a reasonable and understandable concern. Some people were complaining about not everyone having enough theme forces. That's understandable, they certainly were not coming out in a quick manner, were they. The last time I checked we are not being charged for these theme forces, so the price is certainly right. So, low price has already been picked, and it seems like you are opting for high quality over quick completion. Apparently too many other people picked quick completion. The issue with your analogy is that while yes, it applies to themes going forwards, that doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't judge PP for their shoddy rollout of Mk3, which feeds into why they're playing catchup now (in terms of both theme access and balance.) PP should have delivered a well-balanced Mk3. If they needed to access community playtesting resources to do that, they should have done so, rather than dropping a half-finished mess on us with little to no warning. Half of the factions in the game were unfinished at release, and many are still in a sorry state in terms of internal balance. That is something PP is directly responsible for. If themes were intended to be what Mk3 was about, Themes should have been delivered with mk3, or shortly thereafter. I enjoyed the L&L keynote, but it should have been last year's keynote, followed by the release of (well-tested) themes shortly thereafter. Again, it's the result of design decisions made by PP, and PP alone. So yeah, they're on the back foot now, playing catchup and having to make sacrifices in terms of testing and in compromising their original release schedule to get the game into the state it should have been in at release. That's fine and dandy, it might well be better than the alternatives...but PP is wholly responsible for the fact that they're in a position where they're having to make these sacrifices. If someone makes bad choices, that puts them into a situation where they have to make the best of a bad situation, that doesn't mean they're not responsible for the choices leading to them being in that position. |
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Aug 8, 2017 23:23:51 GMT
So, if I'm reading this Insider correctly, they decided to release themes right away because of the CID trying to include mercs in theme lists.
Having been one of the "vocal subset of the customers," here's my impression of how that CID went.
PP - We want to have every theme list have access to mercs, so test them out with being able to take one Battle Engine, one Unit, AND one solo in any theme list.
Me (only speaking for myself, and yes I said these things, or similar, in CID) - this sounds awful. It's completely imbalanced, and gives huge advantage to the factions that have significant access to mercs, like Cygnar, while being of little benefit to factions with little access to Mercs, like Ret & Grymkin.
PP - Well, this will be addressed in the other theme forces, which will be coming later.
Me - How can we test things to see if they're broken, when they're supposed to be balanced out by things we haven't seen yet?
PP - CID over. Will address in future.
So my impression is that PP is still very much on board with mercs being available in all theme lists, this is PP's response to the point that we cannot do playtesting for things they haven't told us yet, and this all seems very rushed and poorly planned.
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