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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 5, 2017 12:59:20 GMT
I personally, as a pessimist, fear this new faction. Grymkin came out with fantastic synergy and a holistic identity. I don't particularly have high hopes that a Warmachine faction coming out in the same way will be...whats a non-triggery way to put it... inline with existing metrics.
I can just see it now that they all have immunity like the assault commandos. Every bit of their tech having a way to abuse it. But for some miraculous reason they're not immune to lightning. Followed by a Kreuger nerf >.>
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2017 13:01:25 GMT
I personally, as a pessimist, fear this new faction. Grymkin came out with fantastic synergy and a holistic identity. I don't particularly have high hopes that a Warmachine faction coming out in the same way will be...whats a non-triggery way to put it... inline with existing metrics. I can just see it now that they all have immunity like the assault commandos. Every bit of their tech having a way to abuse it. But for some miraculous reason they're not immune to lightning. Followed by a Kreuger nerf >.> If they have a half decent CiD process I think they will be fine. Grymkin are only shaking things up because 1:People underestimated dreamer in CiD but to be fair she was an incredibly deep caster. 2:Arcana are hard to playa round creating a lot of "gotchas" in games. This is just a matter of adjustment and time. |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 5, 2017 13:22:45 GMT
If they have a half decent CiD process I think they will be fine. Grymkin are only shaking things up because 1:People underestimated dreamer in CiD but to be fair she was an incredibly deep caster. 2:Arcana are hard to playa round creating a lot of "gotchas" in games. This is just a matter of adjustment and time. I've seen more rage about skin-and-moans. But then again I don't going looking too hard for it. |
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2017 14:44:53 GMT
If they have a half decent CiD process I think they will be fine. Grymkin are only shaking things up because 1:People underestimated dreamer in CiD but to be fair she was an incredibly deep caster. 2:Arcana are hard to playa round creating a lot of "gotchas" in games. This is just a matter of adjustment and time. I've seen more rage about skin-and-moans. But then again I don't going looking too hard for it. It still dies like a chump even at max corpses and under the aura. (Def 13 arm 22 is rough but it only has 28 boxes so application of the avErage arm debuff and it still dies pretty handily. It might be undercosted by a point but it is where all beatstick heavies should be. It still needs 3 corpses, and other support to get to the horrible level everyone complains about. People just are not used to beasts doing what beasts should do, which is kill other heavies when they go all out. |
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Post by borderprince on Oct 5, 2017 16:02:58 GMT
I can just see it now that they all have immunity like the assault commandos. Every bit of their tech having a way to abuse it. But for some miraculous reason they're not immune to lightning. Followed by a Kreuger nerf >.> I'd rather like a faction which stressed alchemy, which would suggest the immunities to fire and corrosion (as would the Crucible Guard armour from the IKRPG), and using those immunities to their benefit would be interesting. But they might not be immune to cold (assault kommandos and Gorman aren't) and lightning (same again). The lightning immunity was rather the whole point of In Thunder Forged - Cygnar has that formula locked up tight (at present, at least). Of course, if Vinter can figure out that giving troops big metal poles helps deal with electro-leaps, one would rather hope that the finest minds in the Iron Kingdoms could work it out too... But immunities are hardly likely to make them a break the game faction. They're annoying to factions which have lots of typed damage, but can be worked around (I don't think any faction, yet, has no access to untyped damage) and the situational benefit will cost points. Assault Kommandos hardly break the game. When Gorman was complained about in Mk2, it wasn't his immunities which were the issue, even if they did make him harder to deal with. There's also the possible irony in OGC mirror matches - the IKRPG has a Crucible Guard firearm which has typed alchemical ammo. If that also makes it into the force, OGC forces might struggle to damage each other. For all their technology, hitting one another might be their most effective approach. |
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Post by Korianneder on Oct 5, 2017 17:02:20 GMT
All the hype about tanks makes me wonder whether they will get warjacks at all. They fill a similar role. Add in the fact that each limited release faction to date has a twist on a core rule (Induction, Arcana), I suspect not. Maybe Crucible Guard replaces warjacks with tanks. They are still battlegroup models, but don't need Focus. Warcasters still have a feat as normal. It does seem strange,given the shift in MKIII with Power Up, but unless the tanks are Battle Engines, I don't see why warjacks would coexist. Soles basically confirmed they would have warjacks in the golden crucible Facebook group. The golden crucible is the number 1 producer of cortexes for the country of Ord. |
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Post by greytemplar on Oct 5, 2017 17:04:53 GMT
By "Tanks" I'm assuming they're going to have 2-3 special battle engines.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 5, 2017 17:06:14 GMT
I can just see it now that they all have immunity like the assault commandos. Every bit of their tech having a way to abuse it. But for some miraculous reason they're not immune to lightning. Followed by a Kreuger nerf >.> I'd rather like a faction which stressed alchemy, which would suggest the immunities to fire and corrosion (as would the Crucible Guard armour from the IKRPG), and using those immunities to their benefit would be interesting. But they might not be immune to cold (assault kommandos and Gorman aren't) and lightning (same again). The lightning immunity was rather the whole point of In Thunder Forged - Cygnar has that formula locked up tight (at present, at least). Of course, if Vinter can figure out that giving troops big metal poles helps deal with electro-leaps, one would rather hope that the finest minds in the Iron Kingdoms could work it out too... But immunities are hardly likely to make them a break the game faction. They're annoying to factions which have lots of typed damage, but can be worked around (I don't think any faction, yet, has no access to untyped damage) and the situational benefit will cost points. Assault Kommandos hardly break the game. When Gorman was complained about in Mk2, it wasn't his immunities which were the issue, even if they did make him harder to deal with. There's also the possible irony in OGC mirror matches - the IKRPG has a Crucible Guard firearm which has typed alchemical ammo. If that also makes it into the force, OGC forces might struggle to damage each other. For all their technology, hitting one another might be their most effective approach. I was being quite a bit sarcastic. It was more a joke that they would be immune to things that other factions rely on (fire- PoM, Legion, etc) but not lightning. So it would be difficult for everyone but Cygnar since they are clear the favorite #Cygnarbalanced. But again; purely sarcastic. I'd love to see another well built highly synergistic faction. I just want it to not be so powerful it showcases the power gap between hordes and warmachine even more. Grymkin are wonderfully themed and all. They might end up being pretty great. But the major Hordes factions still have easily demonstrable loss records against Warmachine right now. I know, dead horse meets club - the repeat offender. Still can't ignore the disparity. |
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Post by Aegis on Oct 5, 2017 17:35:51 GMT
I was being quite a bit sarcastic. It was more a joke that they would be immune to things that other factions rely on (fire- PoM, Legion, etc) but not lightning. So it would be difficult for everyone but Cygnar since they are clear the favorite #Cygnarbalanced. Yeah, clearly favorite... Like when you have the only theme in the game that doesn't allows merc Solos, or the only BG theme that was nerfed even if there are BG themes with benefits clearly a lot better than his. Or when you get your best unit and your best caster nerfed, and at the same time everyone receives spams of almost-free Shield Guards, perfect Cloudwalls or themes that grant Carapace that are clearly intended to be used to mitigate the things you are best at (guns). Yeah. Undeniabily favorite. #CygnarUnbalanced |
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 5, 2017 18:07:34 GMT
Yeah, clearly favorite... Like when you have the only theme in the game that doesn't allows merc Solos, or the only BG theme that was nerfed even if there are BG themes with benefits clearly a lot better than his. Or when you get your best unit and your best caster nerfed, and at the same time everyone receives spams of almost-free Shield Guards, perfect Cloudwalls or themes that grant Carapace that are clearly intended to be used to mitigate the things you are best at (guns). Yeah. Undeniabily favorite. #CygnarUnbalanced I was trying to make a joke. I didn't mean it as some absolute fact. Add to that Legion got none of those things you are lamenting. No cheap shield guards, no cloud wall, no carapace. Nothing. We also got the same BG theme nerf. We have no "thing" to be best at... except maybe pathfinder. But it's missing on many models (casters/infantry/solos) But again I was not making a serious claim. Please do not take everything I say as an attack on Cygnar. I apologize that we've had some unfriendly discussions before. But I'm not here to hate Cygnar. |
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2017 18:13:00 GMT
Honestly the favorite faction right now is Cryx. Its so obvious it hurts. Doesn't the Main PPS_Strawman play cryx? that would make sense. Blatantly better themes than everyone else and other powerful themes got nerfed.
We need to convince the crucible guard that khador are not that bad and cryx need to be in the crosshairs of their tanks!
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Post by Aegis on Oct 5, 2017 18:42:21 GMT
I was trying to make a joke. I didn't mean it as some absolute fact. Add to that Legion got none of those things you are lamenting. No cheap shield guards, no cloud wall, no carapace. Nothing. We also got the same BG theme nerf. We have no "thing" to be best at... except maybe pathfinder. But it's missing on many models (casters/infantry/solos) But again I was not making a serious claim. Please do not take everything I say as an attack on Cygnar. I apologize that we've had some unfriendly discussions before. But I'm not here to hate Cygnar. Saying that a faction is clearly favorite it's easy to misunderstand as an attack to the faction.  That said, I'm sorry too. I'm so used to Cygnar being attacked that I tend to jump up too hastly sometimes.  |
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