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Post by Gaston on Jul 11, 2017 2:53:39 GMT
Stats: Normal Human Name: Normal Fantasy Name Boxes: Normal Human Boxes Merc/Minion: Everyone, even COC. Cause he needs it.
Abilities (The parts you actually care about)
Arcane Void: If a model is targeted within 6", the caster takes D3 (Soulless Voidbreaker I think?)
Gate Walker: Cast a spell, teleport 5" at the end of your activation
Magic Ability [7]
-Bleed: Rng 8, Pow 10; on damage heal D3 -Death Rattle: Rng 8, Pow 12; on kill model makes basic attack and is RFP -Hex Blast: Rng 10, AoE 3, Pow 13; upkeeps and animi on model hit expire (As per Midas) -Puppet Master: Apply Puppet Strings (See every Cryx list ever)
Mental Force: Boost All magic attack and damage rolls, take D3 damage (afterward, so you can go out in a blaze of glory, as worded affects everyone in AoE)
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Post by Azahul on Jul 11, 2017 3:10:19 GMT
Yeah, no way is he coming out of CID even close to that
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Post by Azahul on Jul 11, 2017 3:10:57 GMT
Also Mercs and us are the only two not getting a theme force buff. Yaaaaay.
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 11, 2017 3:13:05 GMT
Yeah, no way is he coming out of CID even close to that That's exactly what I said to a friend as soon as we read him.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 11, 2017 3:29:35 GMT
Also Mercs and us are the only two not getting a theme force buff. Yaaaaay. PP has hated us for 7 years, to be expected. And don't dwell too hard on the non-character Farrow solos benefit....now that any theme can get a Rorsh.... :-D :-D :-D
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Post by Gaston on Jul 11, 2017 3:30:16 GMT
Yeah, no way is he coming out of CID even close to that No way, not even gonna bother to test him.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 11, 2017 7:46:24 GMT
He's too good against Cygnar to come out like that. Every change they make has to benefit Cygnar somehow Seriously though, if you're on the CiD forums I suggest voicing your take on stuff to hopefully counter the vocal idiots. The change to theme forces would be the worst rules change they've ever made from a balance perspective. The big 4 factions get everything, Hordes get very little and Mercs/Minions get screwed. This solo does seem too good, and completely goes back on the idea that they didn't want upkeep removal to be trivial, which is why purification and Eiryss2 were changed. The troll stuff is mostly good though some of it might be slightly too far above the curve. The ambush bears are hopefully a red herring as they are blatantly overpowered and should be nearly twice the cost.
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 11, 2017 8:43:36 GMT
Bears are too cheap but not OP. This new solo...yeah he deserves a good smack with the nerf bat
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Post by custardboy on Jul 11, 2017 23:13:23 GMT
How are they not OP? You may want to look at their rules again...
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 12, 2017 4:25:58 GMT
How are they not OP? You may want to look at their rules again... Because they only really work when using gang and that really limits their application...and because 12/17 (19 under stone) 8 boxes is not as hard to remove as you might think and because if they ambush they probably aren't benefitting from Stone or UA buffs... Knee jerking is bad and I think at 10 or 12 points they would be fine...
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Post by custardboy on Jul 12, 2017 5:50:25 GMT
How are they not OP? You may want to look at their rules again... Because they only really work when using gang and that really limits their application...and because 12/17 (19 under stone) 8 boxes is not as hard to remove as you might think and because if they ambush they probably aren't benefitting from Stone or UA buffs... Knee jerking is bad and I think at 10 or 12 points they would be fine... Long riders and bears are about the same points per model- the bears would be slightly cheaper as their handler would be worth a bit over 1 point. Their stats are very similar. Long riders have reposition, cavalry charge, +1 MAT, bull rush, follow up and brutal charge. Bears have gang, unyielding, AD, prowl, pathfinder, more attacks, higher pow, ambush and the Northkin tagline (relevant to a few abilities). The bears having AD lets them get to defensible positions very easily. They have pathfinder so can go into a forest or behind a wall and threaten a charge. They also have stealth in forests. They benefit from stumbling drunk with the hooch hauler if you take it and get stealth with Bearka. They have unyielding. Random cold immunity, if that comes up. No contest whatsoever, they are far, far more survivable. Charging high def targets, the long riders do better due to cavalry charge. They also can sometimes kill things on the way due to impact attacks. The bears have higher MAT with gang and more attacks, but the long riders probably just edge them out against infantry. The long riders get a boosted and an unboosted pow14 against big stuff. Bears get a boosted 16 and 2 unboosted 15s. Against an arm 19 target a long rider does 7.5 damage, the bear does 13.5 damage. The two bears would almost kill a crusader without any buffs. Two long riders would be hoping to knock out a system. Simply applying the str buff from the stone and nothing else has them dealing 33 damage vs arm 19, 27 vs arm 20. The long riders would be looking at 17 and 15 damage respectively. A long rider can choose to reduce its damage and do a bull rush if they want and have the angle for it. This gives them an interesting bit of tech against extremely high armour where even the bears would barely scratch it- a devastator or something. Note how I didn't include ambush? Bears have ambush.
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 12, 2017 15:08:25 GMT
Long riders are also considered to be poor calvary and are rarely taken in trolls so comparing the two doesn't really accomplish anything other than show that bears may actually be more closely costed than you think. Long riders can split up and maintain their output. Bears HAVE to focus on one target at a time. Considering how cheap warjacks are trading a 9 or 10 point unit to kill a 10 point heavy seems fair to me (and they don't even one round your average heavy)
Play some games with them, arguing stats wont accomplish anything as we can theory-machine all day back and forth. Prove me wrong by showing me in a game how broken they are.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jul 13, 2017 7:50:54 GMT
Play some games with them, arguing stats wont accomplish anything as we can theory-machine all day back and forth. Prove me wrong by showing me in a game how broken they are. Oh hey is Una2 being released again? That was exactly the mantra when her stats were released toward people who cried OP. She was ultimately nerfed. Anyone who has played the game for some time should have a reasonable feel for what might be too good or too weak based on experience with similar models / points. Sure, there are many models that don't get enough love from the forums that should, but this model is MK2 Gorman pre-nerf.
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Post by superrunes on Jul 13, 2017 9:54:46 GMT
It's a bit of a stretch to compare the bears to Una2 and mk2 gorman. They moght be a bit too good for the points, but they are still only beatsticks, they won't annoy anyone or be nearly impossible to beat like Una2 or Gorman.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jul 13, 2017 10:31:35 GMT
It's a bit of a stretch to compare the bears to Una2 and mk2 gorman. They moght be a bit too good for the points, but they are still only beatsticks, they won't annoy anyone or be nearly impossible to beat like Una2 or Gorman. Sorry, I was mostly referring to Eilish Garrity in that comment.
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