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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 2, 2017 13:14:28 GMT
Hi all, I´m about to build a Blindwater force. Well, my local "meta" is full of ARM spam, therefore I like to have a list that (1) is able to crack ARM; (2) is based on dude spam simply because I like to have a Blindwater dude spam list. So, is it possible to build such an army? Which warlock do you recomment? Thanks in advance ZK
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 2, 2017 16:28:14 GMT
I don't think it's viable since Blindwater lacks a high PS or WM unit.
However if you're set on trying it, I think the best best would be Rask with CMAing Ambushers. This will net you a PS14+ charge attack. With reach and ambush, it shouldn't be too difficult to fit in 3+ guys giving you a potential PS17 attacks.
You could also put it on Posse, but I think the volume of attacks and versatility of the other units such as Shamblers or Croaks is worth more.
You could also try out Maelok or Calaban for a similar effect using their respective debuff spells.
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Post by gobber on Jul 2, 2017 16:36:46 GMT
I'd look at rask+shamblers+3x posse first. When furied, each gator averages 9.5 damage on a charge vs arm20, which isn't terrible. Furied Bokor gets to trade for a heavy as well. However arm cracking has always been posse's weakness (and Blindwater's as a whole) and they'll really fall off against arm higher than that. I'm pretty sure the list would struggle against Karchev/Harkevich/Durst/Double arm-buffed colossal lists, which makes me wonder about its viability as an arm cracker in a pairing. Rask+superfriends or Pigs handle this a bit better.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 2, 2017 17:09:19 GMT
I think you did some math wrong on the gators. Base PS13 +3 from Fury=16. I'm assuming you used 10.5 as the boosted roll, so it should come out to 16+10.5-20=6.5 damage.
The best bet for "cracking" armor in Blind Water is probably "spamming" Wrastlers.
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Post by gobber on Jul 2, 2017 17:17:43 GMT
Correct, and their second attack would contribute an additional 3 presuming they can make it into bite range.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Jul 2, 2017 21:44:35 GMT
It is 'jack/beast spam or more of a Heavy Infantry kind of deal? I think Rask and Calaban are the best bets into the former and Maelok into the latter (units tend to have higher DEF and Tough, both of which are negated by Mortality).
The problem is that most Blindwater 'beasts are expensive enough that they cannot trade favourably with many Warmachine lists since it is possible to spam cheap Warjacks (i have seen Karchev + 8 Heavies or Amon with 12 Dervishes). It becomes very difficult to trade with such a list when they can sacrifice a couple of 'jacks to lure out your 'beasts. On the other hand, a single hard target is much more manageable. A Stormwall under Arcane Shield can be debuffed and taken down by a single buffed Wrastler provided you have good damage rolls (2 attacks at +1 and four attacks at +4 means an average of 53-54 damage even when you have to charge).
While Wrastlers are needed for Rage, you do not have to rely purely on Wrastlers. I have been on the receiving end of both Ironback Spitters with Calaban (backed by Parasite and Rage) and Swamp Horrors under Rask (with Fury and Rage). Both hurt a lot - especially since both Warlocks can dispel defensive Upkeeps/Animi.
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Post by gobber on Jul 2, 2017 23:38:40 GMT
Free thrullgs are nice to have on the arcshielded stormwall front as well. I agree that I generally wouldn't be too worried about taking out a single colossal in blindwater; double colossal lists and jack/beast spams that hit arm20ish are going to be hard.
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Post by ankiseth on Jul 3, 2017 1:46:00 GMT
Yeah it's Rask with whatever or it's Calaban with Briggands probably. If Briggands prey a Heavy, they can shoot at effective POW 17, and Calaban can juggle Parasite around during the feat. Do Hog Wild if you need he charges to finish it off or Repo 3" back and shoot again next turn. POW 17 is good in a lot of contexts but probably isn't enough for a truly committed Khador spam.
But you shouldn't ever try to beat a Khador spam on attrition. Play control-style Barnabus and try to engineer a pop-and-drop Feat turn.
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 3, 2017 5:12:23 GMT
I really like Brigand hunline with Batman is. I one-rounded a non-arcane shielded Stormwall with one unit with parasite on it.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 3, 2017 8:06:25 GMT
Thanks for all your advice here! I think I will go and have some games with Rask then. But you shouldn't ever try to beat a Khador spam on attrition. Play control-style Barnabus and try to engineer a pop-and-drop Feat turn. Although this sounds good, I avoid to play a "knock down" gameplan simply due to the fact that this didn´t work with Helga more often than not. There is so much anti knock down tech in my area...
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 3, 2017 18:58:22 GMT
Are you building specifically in the Blindwater theme? or just Blindwater casters?
Cuz Slaughterhousers are a thing. Parasite or fury make them solid into armor and they aren't the worst to deliver. They are sort of pricey for the # of dudes though. 11pts for 6 pigs.
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