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Post by The Trane on Jun 15, 2017 5:30:14 GMT
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103 
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Post by Tucker on Jun 16, 2017 3:30:24 GMT
I don't even know how they expect to regulate this or why they even bothered with a thousand words of rules about it. It would be much better to just say 'don't abuse this rule and keep markers to a minimum.' The individual players are going to end up deciding how to implement pre-measuring anyways, so you might as well try to inculcate them with the right sort of attitude and sportsmanship instead of encumbering them with even more rules.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 16, 2017 4:08:40 GMT
Maybe I'm blind , but did they even define measurement?
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Post by Trollock on Jun 16, 2017 14:51:17 GMT
I think this worked out pretty well. Fingers are no longer table markers, and it is a bit vague, BUT now it becomes a sportsmanship issue. If you try to abuse the vagueries of this, that is unsportsmanlike behavior, and that is grounds for disqualification. We all know when some one is "making a continuous measurement" and when some one is just trying to get more table markers out on the table. It becomes a sportsmanship issue, and if years of competing at warmachine has taught me anything it is that basically every one at tournaments are very sportsman-like. We are now allowed to use the tools we have invented to figure out where a model can move to, and we are allowed to mark where two models will be (such as the warlock, and the beast he will try to force). I deem this a success on beforehand  |
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Jun 16, 2017 17:04:17 GMT
It would've been easier to revert the premeasuring altogether..
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Post by greytemplar on Jun 16, 2017 17:38:48 GMT
This seems like a reasonable compromise. This rule allows you to measure individual measurements freely, but you are not allowed to leave a ton of clutter on the table marking out 10 different positions dragging the game out.
I also heartily approve of lowering the points needed to win by to 5. That is at least somewhat reasonable to achieve. Though I still feel that this whole total redesign of Steamroller was a colossal mistake and they should just continue improving the old version, it was pretty close to perfect. It just needed more scenarios.
Honestly, it would have been best to just keep the old scenario packet, but keep adding new scenarios to keep things interesting.
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Post by Morganstern on Jun 16, 2017 18:27:55 GMT
I think the measurement marker rules seem quite fair. I also feel that if these rules had been included in Prime/Primal then people would not have made a fuss about them.
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Post by tesoe on Jun 16, 2017 18:41:21 GMT
This seems pretty fair and not very complicated.
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Xarlaxas
Junior Strategist
Hoards models more than he plays.
Posts: 192
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Post by Xarlaxas on Jun 16, 2017 19:35:07 GMT
Alas, I cannot read them at work, the PP site is blocked: can anyone share the final ruling?
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jun 16, 2017 22:28:59 GMT
Alas, I cannot read them at work, the PP site is blocked: can anyone share the final ruling? Hope this helps. Tokens and templates represent in-game effects such as focus, fury, spells, AOE effects, etc., and should be placed next to the affected model(s) or on the appropriate area of the board. Players can only have tokens or templates on the table that represent an in-game effect that is currently in play. All other tokens and templates should be removed from the table or stored on an area of the table that does not interfere with gameplay. A proxy base represents a model that cannot physically fit into a space on the table due to terrain features or other models. A proxy base must be labeled or marked to indicate which model it represents and the facing of the model. As soon as it is possible to replace a proxy base with the actual model it represents, a player must do so. A table marker is an item used by a player to mark a specific place on the board that does not represent an in-game effect or a model’s current placement. For example, a player might use a table marker to indicate the threat range of an enemy warjack or to determine if a friendly model will fit into a specific space after charging an enemy. Players can use only the following items as table markers: 30 mm, 40 mm, 50 mm, and 120 mm markers; 3˝, 4˝, and 5˝ AOE templates; wall templates; and small beads or coins. A player cannot have more than two table markers on the table at any time. If you place a third table marker on the table, you must immediately remove at least one of your other table markers. This limit does not apply during deployment. Players can use any number of table markers to mark the edge of their deployment and advance deployment zones but must remove those markers before the first turn begins. A measuring device is any item other than a table marker or proxy base whose express purpose is to measure a distance or to aid in measuring a distance. Examples of measuring devices include tape measures, war sticks, and melee gauges. A player cannot leave any measuring device on the table while not actively making a measurement. A player can make a single continuous measurement at any time and can use any number of measuring devices when making this measurement. Measuring devices that are not part of the current measurement must be removed from the table. In addition to the single continuous measurement, a player can also mark the melee ranges of his opponent’s models during his turn. |
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 17, 2017 0:34:19 GMT
Seems worse that standard premeasuring in every meaningful way.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Jun 17, 2017 2:33:11 GMT
The primary benefit of universal pre-measuring was that it simplified things immensely. I'm agnostic as to whether it improved the tactical aspect of the game, but it did make the game cleaner and less finicky which is a distinct improvement. Putting all of these restrictions in place is just counter productive and bad game design. I'm sure that somehow I will manage to survive  but I'd rather have no pre-measuring at all than pre-measuring with a thousand words of restrictions. |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 17, 2017 8:39:29 GMT
Seems worse that standard premeasuring in every meaningful way. It is more complicated for sure, but PP wanted to get rid of the "proxy turn" where you played out multiple activations without actually committing to them, and this rule should get rid of that while still allowing you to measure if a charge will reach the target, or a complicated S-shaped walk or what ever. 1" steppers remain legal for example. This wording achieves what they want to achieve while having only a slight impact on the "normal" game play. Now, i too prefer the standard universal pre-measurement, but i can totally live with this, unlike the rules that were tested in the CID. That shit would have me looking for other games :S |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 17, 2017 14:47:57 GMT
I don't like these rules, but I can live with them. I almost never had more than two distance markers on the table at the same time, anyway. Still, it just adds another level of complexity to a complex game. Now I get to explain to new players that they can "Measure anything at any time for any reason" but "only if you follow the rules in this brick of text". It's just one more thing to remember.
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Post by cainuslupus on Jun 17, 2017 15:09:01 GMT
I don't like these rules, but I can live with them. I almost never had more than two distance markers on the table at the same time, anyway. Still, it just adds another level of complexity to a complex game. Now I get to explain to new players that they can "Measure anything at any time for any reason" but "only if you follow the rules in this brick of text". It's just one more thing to remember. New players shouldn't start with Steamroller, ever. You need to learn basics before starting competitive games. Those rules are sportsmanship guide for TOURNAMENTS. Something that can discourage new player far easier than any set of measuring rules. Also I've never met someone who wouldn't help new player during competitive games. |
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but I'd rather have no pre-measuring at all than pre-measuring with a thousand words of restrictions.