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Post by skathrex on Jun 7, 2017 13:25:56 GMT
Hey Komrades,
I need your help on my Sorscha1 List. This list would be my primary Cryx drop and should also do well against most other infantry lists.
I am going out of theme since I think the theme leaves to much open and suboptimal. But mainly I feel that Sorscha1 only can use her full potential when beeing backed up by Sylys.
This is the building point of my army:
Khador Army - 36 / 75 points
!!! Your army must contain at least 99 total points.
(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Torch [18] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
- Sylsy just helps enable her Freezing Grip so much. She should be able to freeze a Unit almost every round. - Torch helps vs Stealth in general and Denny1 specifically. She can never come close to him since he will just drop a Flare on her, after that she is basically defensless and dead. - 2 Units of Rifle Corps are the basic stock to generate enough Firepower against GF
Further considerations for my Army: There are 11 WJ Points left so the question is, do I take: - Juggernaut to just fill up the points - Behemoth for more rng pressure. A bit expensive and I am not sure I can fuel him every turn, but still BigB - Destroyer. A bit of rng presence, see also Behemoth
Furthermore there are: - Kossites, yes really. Better GF players will always leave one Grunt behind to be secure. Kossites can take care of the Grunts in the back. After all, Freezing Grip hits the whole Unit - Doomreaver (1 Unit) Works well with Sorscha, has magic Weapons and is a bit of a Frontline presence, but mostly a point fill - Gun Carriage (CID): similar Role to the Kossites. Remove loads of Pirates and can even Reach the ones far, far in the back. - more Rifle Corps...because..why not? But that doesn't really take advantage of not beeing in theme - Forge Seer + Destroyer, Magic shooting against Blackbane etc. - Aiana&Holt&Valachev: Expensive but brings magical Weapons to everyone and also + Dmg against harder Targets - Sniperboat (Widowmaker, Marksman, Kell): Especially Kell is very good due to magical shooting - Orin: Always good against Cryx - WGI, just because Sprays
So thats basically it. All the things I am currently thinking about putting in the List. Its so much I just can't decide what I want I need your help!
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Post by auraco on Jun 7, 2017 15:24:53 GMT
Quick question, how necessary is valachev in the list, the magic weapon spell on ayanna is not faction and the damage buff against cryx is mostly irreleveant. This gives you 4 extra points for something else like Kell who really like Sorscha1's for of war. I'd also be curious to try the gun carriage under CID rules, if you freeze a unit it makes the impact attack pretty much auto kill against most of the ghost fleet army. Probably better chances to actually make it to the enemy when compared to doom reavers who will simply get shot to death without a second though by ghost fleet.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 7, 2017 15:52:26 GMT
In my local meta we have a killer Cryx player who has been wreaking havoc with is Ghost Fleet lists. I have been wanting to play him, but our schedules never match up. My problem with Cryx is their ability to basically remove a unit or two with a debuff, and then pick apart the rest of the army. I think Sorscha1, at least on paper, is a good Ghost Fleet drop, but I have shied away from WG and MOW and gone all in on doomreavers; Khador - Sorscha
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +29 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Victor - PC: 38 (Battlegroup Points Used: 29)
Saxon Orrik - PC: 4 Fenris - PC: 9 Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 7 Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan - PC: 3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
My hope is that first of all Victor cannot be moved or knocked down or taken control of etc. He provides a nice hiding spot for Sorscha from most things barring Ghost Shots, but she should still be DEF 18. That with the 20" range gun and Artillery Kapitan, that I can get Flaming Death on Denny or whomever, boost that damage and hope fire continues the job. I have lots of access to magic weapons, pathfinder and speed to put them to use, and proactive or defensive use of her FEAT could turn things quickly. Anyway, I like your list as well, the board presence I think is good, but again I would be concerned about the ultimate vulnerability of the WG to spells etc.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 7, 2017 17:23:17 GMT
But mainly I feel that Sorscha1 only can use her full potential when beeing backed up by Sylys. Why do you say that? I find Arcane Assist is too limiting by being the first spell - Sorscha doesn't always want to cast Freezing Grip first. I prefer Reinholdt with the reroll of stealth removal as required. Which then lets you replace Torch with something better (most of the jack stable). Related - are you sure two units of WGRC is better than one unit + the Sniper boat? The snipers are independently accurate, which is helpful. Otherwise: Orin - essential against Denny1. You must make sure that Sorscha is not caught by a Scourge knocking her down. Without high DEF, she is far too vulnerable to a Ghost Fleet ranged assassination. The alternative to Orin is a list full of spell-warded models (Doomreavers and/or Alexia1). I like the Kossites suggestion, although I think they will probably just end up as a distraction. As for Doomreavers, you need to go big or go home with them. One unit is easy pickings and probably won't make it to combat. At least two are needed, but that's a different build.
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Post by skathrex on Jun 7, 2017 20:07:42 GMT
auraco: I agree that Valachev isn't needed against GF. I am not sure I mentioned it, but I don't want this list to be all in, and thats where Valachev and the Kiss comes into effect. Additionally I don't like spending 8 points just to get magic weapons. The CID GC is a hot contender right now. It just has the same spot as the Kossites against GF in that it can take out the models in the back. Growl: I know your list and someday I want to try it (honestly your reports where the reason to even think about Doomies), but I don't think it plays into GF. The feat is devestating for melee armys. borderprince: It's not only arcane assist but generally when I play her I move forward and Windrush back (that way I can shoot). The +2" are huge too, as is the free upkeep. Reinhold is by no means bad, and maybe even a very good pick against GF because Denny really has to watch out for your Rng attacks (she can never feat into your troops, because S1 would just freeze her while the rest shoots her. But as I mentioned above I want it to be a general list and GF can still beat you while Denny beeing way back (yay Arcnodes, damn I want some). And no I am not sure, but I feel the 2 Units of WGRC have more shots to take down Pirates. Good point about Orin, again lets S1 play way more aggressive. I think Orin and Kell will find their ways into the list somehow. Kossites need to be tested (and I want them to work so badly). Doomy was just a idea. I think they will get into combat however. GF isn't big on shooting. The idea is that my shooting is stronger so he has to come to me and can't dance around my doomys.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 7, 2017 20:59:03 GMT
Assuming the GC comes out of CID mostly unchanged, I think it is close to auto include for Sorscha1 lists. I tend to agree with taking Wishy, he does a lot for her. It's not just the arcane assist, he extends the range on all her spells so she can be further back and lets you keep fog in play on turns you would need to spend 6 focus (which is basically any turn you want to freezing grip and wind rush).
I'm not sure how crazy putting Behemoth on Forge Seer is. It is a stupid amount of points, but you can get reasonable value out of the jack marshal abilities with boundless charge on top. I think it could be worth trying with Sorscha1.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 8, 2017 4:16:52 GMT
A&H isn't 8 points just for magic weapons; you're also getting two RAT 8 P+S 12 handcannon shots, that's going to be doing as much as 8 points of WMM against infantry lists (or for that matter against medium armour).
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Post by Netherby on Jun 8, 2017 4:21:30 GMT
It's silly not to include Valachev though, since you aren't going to always drop it vs Cryx and will want the extra damage.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 8, 2017 8:08:21 GMT
Depends on whether the rest of the list needs help against armour? But even then, the maths isn't "12 points for magic weapons or +2 damage", it's "12 points for magic weapons or +2 damage, two RAT 8 handcannons, and the option of a MA 7 magic spray".
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 8, 2017 13:24:05 GMT
I tried Seer + Grolar as an infantry-killing module and was surprised at how much stuff it kills. Granted it was in jaws with free Seer, still a thing to consider. I think it can take care of Blackbanes by itself and you even have Boundless charge and freezes to improve it's perfomance.
Otherwise long ranged shooting is the way to go. This is the matchup where you don't want to get close to not get assassinated by some random arcnode/incorp solo/stalker/etc. that you didn't even notice was there sitting in the corner.
Orin is also what I want in this matchup. Both for his anti-magic and leap abilities.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 8, 2017 13:29:13 GMT
Assuming the GC comes out of CID mostly unchanged, I think it is close to auto include for Sorscha1 lists. I tend to agree with taking Wishy, he does a lot for her. It's not just the arcane assist, he extends the range on all her spells so she can be further back and lets you keep fog in play on turns you would need to spend 6 focus (which is basically any turn you want to freezing grip and wind rush). I'm not sure how crazy putting Behemoth on Forge Seer is. It is a stupid amount of points, but you can get reasonable value out of the jack marshal abilities with boundless charge on top. I think it could be worth trying with Sorscha1. I would not recommend putting Behemoth on the Forge Seer going into Ghost Fleet, the Pistol Wraith can just Chain Attack Stationary it.
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Post by skathrex on Jun 8, 2017 13:32:24 GMT
Yeah the A&H&V discussion is pretty much irrellevant for me at this point (even with factoring in the 2 handcannon shots). Orin and eventually Kell are already a lot of magic. Enough to deal with the worst offenders in GF.
Still have to think about Kossites vs Gun Carriage and wether I want to inlcude the Seer+X combination or the Sniperboat.
But so far this helped a lot. Going to test it tomorrow night and report back on monday.
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Post by Havock on Jun 8, 2017 22:47:20 GMT
Quick question, how necessary is valachev in the list, the magic weapon spell on ayanna is not faction and the damage buff against cryx is mostly irreleveant. This gives you 4 extra points for something else like Kell who really like Sorscha1's for of war. I'd also be curious to try the gun carriage under CID rules, if you freeze a unit it makes the impact attack pretty much auto kill against most of the ghost fleet army. Probably better chances to actually make it to the enemy when compared to doom reavers who will simply get shot to death without a second though by ghost fleet. I'd say Valachev is pretty neat; +2 damage is pretty big when you drop this list in other matchups; paired with Torch means the rifles are becoming long range hand cannons, the rockets become bullshit and Sorscha herself can go up to defacto PS15. For the list I'd consider a field gun and a mortar. The field gun means you can do things like freeze/KD an enemy 'jack/beast which, if your opponent has no easy fix for either means it will have to spend/force for two right off the bat. The latter because lolpopsicles. A minimum unit of Kossites to threaten either REMF revenants or stuff like Choir, arcanists etc. Double Kayazy eliminators for contesting, unjamming, scoring, arc node hunting or whatever.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 9, 2017 1:22:49 GMT
I would not recommend putting Behemoth on the Forge Seer going into Ghost Fleet, the Pistol Wraith can just Chain Attack Stationary it. It's a theoretical problem, but in practice you out threat them and can block LoS. I would be more worried about it into other stuff. I don't think the two possible Pistol Wraiths are a significant problem.
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Post by skathrex on Jun 9, 2017 7:21:20 GMT
Quick question, how necessary is valachev in the list, the magic weapon spell on ayanna is not faction and the damage buff against cryx is mostly irreleveant. This gives you 4 extra points for something else like Kell who really like Sorscha1's for of war. I'd also be curious to try the gun carriage under CID rules, if you freeze a unit it makes the impact attack pretty much auto kill against most of the ghost fleet army. Probably better chances to actually make it to the enemy when compared to doom reavers who will simply get shot to death without a second though by ghost fleet. I'd say Valachev is pretty neat; +2 damage is pretty big when you drop this list in other matchups; paired with Torch means the rifles are becoming long range hand cannons, the rockets become bullshit and Sorscha herself can go up to defacto PS15. For the list I'd consider a field gun and a mortar. The field gun means you can do things like freeze/KD an enemy 'jack/beast which, if your opponent has no easy fix for either means it will have to spend/force for two right off the bat. The latter because lolpopsicles. A minimum unit of Kossites to threaten either REMF revenants or stuff like Choir, arcanists etc. Double Kayazy eliminators for contesting, unjamming, scoring, arc node hunting or whatever. A lot of suggestions in here, and puhh I don't know where to get the points^^. A&H&V is pretty much off the table with Kell and Orin beeing too good an alternative (or seer+Destroyer). It still itches me though. Giving a whole Unit magical attacks is very nice against GF elements, and the more I think about it the less they are off the table...Firetruck. Field Gun is nice, but I am really not sure about it. While mortar is definatly awesome. Both have the Problem that with them I would be really tempted to go back into Theme...but i am really afraid of the whole incorp stuff. Kossites are pretty much set Eliminators is a neat idea. They are really good at holding zones and don't die easily against fleet (or need a big investment) definetly something to keep in mind. I would not recommend putting Behemoth on the Forge Seer going into Ghost Fleet, the Pistol Wraith can just Chain Attack Stationary it. It's a theoretical problem, but in practice you out threat them and can block LoS. I would be more worried about it into other stuff. I don't think the two possible Pistol Wraiths are a significant problem. I think its workable, but just to expensive vs. GF. You have to fill S1 WJ points anyway and then taking 33 Points of the remaining points is just to much. Especially since all you need is volume of attacks not power.
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