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Post by thetomikaze15 on Jun 6, 2017 21:19:39 GMT
So my current pairing I'm working on is V2 and Ossyan. Typical helios build for v2 but I made the ossyan list for ghost fleet and other things vyros doesn't want to see. What do you guys think??
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Vyros2
Theme: Forges of War 4 / 4 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard - WJ: +27 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Imperatus - PC: 22 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Aspis - PC: 6 - Helios - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27)
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 0
THEME: Forges of War ---
GENERATED : 06/06/2017 17:11:44 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Ossyan Shadows
Theme: Shadows of the Retribution 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +28 - Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Hypnos - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Hydra - PC: 15
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 0 Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 4
Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6 Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander - PC: 4
THEME: Shadows of the Retribution ---
GENERATED : 06/06/2017 17:19:29 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Jun 7, 2017 2:11:22 GMT
I like both armies in a vacuum, but what sort of stuff is Ossyan supposed to go up against? The army you have is good against Warmachine but not so great against Hordes, where it lacks hitting power. If you're looking to cover Vyros2's weak points you should try to cover all of them.
I don't play Vyros2 but it seems to me that he generally doesn't want to play against lists with a lot of hard-hitting infantry - so Cryx, Khador, Skorne, and Trollbloods. I think that you would be better served to play a different army with Ossyan, possibly in the Defenders of Ios theme, so you can take units better suited to killing shield wall units and war beasts.
Stormfall Archers are very good against both of those targets, especially with the buffs Ossyan can give them. Pair them with some House Guard and I think you have a solid sort of army. Another option would be to take Electromancers, who are great against Cryx if that's giving you problems.
I don't think your Ossyan army is bad; it's just tailored to fight Cryx (and Retribution!). If that's what you want, then go for it, but be aware of the army's weaknesses.
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Post by thetomikaze15 on Jun 7, 2017 3:49:03 GMT
Yeah I was kind of thinking the same thing. This is a list that I toyed with while defenders was in cid.
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Ossyan Defenders
Theme: Defenders of Ios 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +28 - Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4 - Hypnos - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Hydra - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen - PC: 0 Houseguard Thane - PC: 0 Houseguard Thane - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 9 Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 9 Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4 Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4
THEME: Defenders of Ios ---
GENERATED : 06/06/2017 23:47:44 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
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Post by celeb on Jun 7, 2017 4:57:27 GMT
I think you want a 10-man shooting unit with Ossyan at the moment if you play him to cover Ghost Fleet. In Defenders, that would be a unit of Riflemen. I think the Strike Force build is better in the pair. Vyros should be able to handle all of Hordes, including Skorne and Trolls (Double Ferox Makeda2 can be a problem, but that can be handled by double Strike force, as well as the double Reiver Build which both casters can play into). Trolls don't really play their infantry and don't like having their Beasts pushed around. Worst case here would be Horgle with Mountain King, but Vyros can handle that.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Jun 7, 2017 5:43:46 GMT
I played a very similar pairing recently and basically ended up playing against everything I wasn't prepared for. Granted, my Ossyan list had a unit of Infiltrators instead of the Hydra and Vyros2 was without the colossal but I don't think it changes some of the more problematic matches.
I played into Legion twice. Once with Fyanna (where he managed to go through everything and murder Vyros2 because I wasn't careful enough of threat ranges) and once with Absylonia2 and Lylyth2 (I picked Vyros because Ossyan has massive trouble against Lylyth only to be out-threated, out-damaged and out-played). I finally hit Khador and figured Ossyan had a good chance but went up against Karchev with 9 Heavies. Without damage spikes, I removed two of those on Ossyan's feat and had to try to assassinate Karchev but ultimately left him on a single box after two turns of shooting.
I think the Ossyan list is good against Ghost Fleet but - as Tucker said - I think the pairing can have trouble into Skorne and Legion. I don't know what kind of lists you see locally but based on my own experiences I think I would consider Defenders of Ios with Ossyan - or bringing a second list with more threat range than Vyros2.
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Post by thetomikaze15 on Jun 7, 2017 16:52:39 GMT
Skorne is not very prevalent in my local meta, there's one guy that comes to our steamrollers occassionally and there is one legion player who tends to finish in the top 3 pretty regularly. But mostly our meta is cryx khador cygnar ret and menoth.
Who would you guys use to cover ghost fleet and vyros's weaknesses?
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Jun 7, 2017 20:41:49 GMT
This is not the most satisfying answer, but the best army to play is the one you're most comfortable with. That means you'll be more likely to play it and you'll be better at playing it when you do. Player skill is more important than trying to achieve some sort of Platonic ideal of army construction. If you like Ossyan, go with Ossyan and tweak your army until you're happy with it. I like the Defenders theme army that you posted for Ossyan, though as others have said I would swap one of the Halberdier units for some Riflemen.
If you're considering other warcasters, Elara2 is always a solid choice, as she's flexible enough to handle anything. My current list pair includes Elara2 for just that reason - I drop her against anything that feels awkward for my main army as her focus on debuffs and speed boosts are useful in any situation.
Hylenna seems like a good pick too, as she likes to shoot while Vyros likes melee, and her army will still hit hard enough to bust up tougher foes. Plus, if you have two armies that have similar builds (myrmidon-heavy, in this hypothetical) then you can more easily predict which army your opponent will drop and pick the best counter from your collection.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 8, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
The only thing I'm not sure about in the ossyan list is the hydra. I think it could be better as either a unit of infiltrators or as a banshee (if you drop 1 assassin). I like the rest of it though.
I am slightly in favor of the infiltrators, but double banshee is amazing, and all their weapons are magical which is sweet into ghost fleet.
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Bart
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by Bart on Jun 9, 2017 19:41:17 GMT
Why many of you guys are so interested in elara2? I can't see that her "something"
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Post by Sylvos on Jun 9, 2017 20:52:43 GMT
Elara 2 provides "Cryxian" debuffing that has been absent in most Retribution armies for a very long time. Her feat is also pretty amazing which allows for some brilliant assassination runs.
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Post by nightflier on Jun 10, 2017 14:28:13 GMT
People like her (myself included) because of very versatile tool kit. On any given turn she can give a peice in her army +2 to hit, damage, speed and pathfinder. Makes her very good at spot removal. Her feat is also makes her the only universal speed and pathfinder caster in the faction which makes for a powerful alpha strike caster that you can be more confident taking to a foreign meta. She also has an easy to over look yet powerful assassination vector with her feat as well that can can squeeze you out of a bad matchup. One of the reasons after I tried dalia and the snake that i will try and always take them is that if you can get a lane on a caster, the snake will kill said caster dead.
All of this with some flavorful and dynamic movement abilities and a suprising amount of personal threat, wraps up to a caster that can be just a joy to play.
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Post by thetomikaze15 on Jun 10, 2017 16:54:30 GMT
Can you post your elara2 list? Or a list you would pair with v2
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Post by nightflier on Jun 10, 2017 17:46:32 GMT
I'm shadows for an attrition angle into ghost fleet (untested)
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Elara, Shadows
Theme: Shadows of the Retribution 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 16 / 20 Specialist
Elara, Death's Shadow - WJ: +28 - Phoenix - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Manticore - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Manticore - PC: 14 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 0 Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 4 Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 4
Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander - PC: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander - PC: 4
SPECIALISTS Griffon - PC: 8 Aspis - PC: 6 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
THEME: Shadows of the Retribution ---
GENERATED : 06/10/2017 12:42:33 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
List I ran and think has a decent all arround game
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Elara, Death's Shadow
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army 0 / 20 Specialist
Elara, Death's Shadow - WJ: +28 - Phoenix - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Phoenix - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath House Shyeel Artificer - PC: 5 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 4
Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander - PC: 4 Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1
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GENERATED : 06/10/2017 12:46:03 BUILD ID : 2042.17-05-22
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Jun 11, 2017 2:16:04 GMT
I'm going from memory and the theme force is new to me, so forgive any errors:
Shadows of the Retribution theme Elara2 -Chimera -Griffon x 2 -Manticore x 2 Arcanist x 2 MH Assassin x 2 (free) MH Infiltrators (10) + Eiryss 3 MH Strike Force (6) + CA x 2
This is the Elara2 army that I've played since last summer, with some slight modifications to fit in into the Shadows theme. I will probably tinker with it again to fit in the Spears of Scyrah when they are released.
The general idea is that the mass amount of Advance Deploy troops allows me to dictate when and where the fight occurs, either by charging my enemy at the first opportunity, or jamming him up if he tries to control the tempo with a defensive feat. Elara's feat obviously helps with charging, and the Ghostly aspect of it also helps with jamming by allowing your infantry to get into annoying places and really mess up the enemy's advance.
The battlegroup usually does most of the heavy lifting, fighting behind a screen of Mage Hunters. Manticores are cheap and hit really hard, and if you need to they can play defense with Covering Fire and their guns. The Chimera is fantastic, as an Arc Node is a must with Elara, mostly for applying Marked for Death but also for spreading her other spells around as needed. The Griffons are mostly there to be targets for Scything Touch, but they can also thicken the skirmish screen of Mage Hunters or boost attacks into hard targets.
That's the real genius of this army and Elara2 in general - it has a very flexible game plan. It can shoot, it can fight in melee, it can rush forward, it can hang back, it can launch an attack across the line, and it can piece trade tit-for-tat. Griffons and Mage Hunter Assassins are a fantastic package for initiating piece trades and forcing your enemy to come forward. They threaten from a mile away and hit really hard with Scything Touch, and if the enemy doesn't deal with them they can reload and do it again.
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