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Post by Netherby on May 30, 2017 14:04:32 GMT
Man-o-Wars have always been like my most favourite unit. I used to run them under Vlad2 in the Mk2 theme he had. So come Mk3 I still really, really like to run MoWs with Vlad2, which means no theme. I hate pikemen, the models, the assembly, the painting, the freaking pikes... But Leg-o-S is almost certainly maybe the best theme to take him in if you must run a theme. Jaws also has all decent options for him actually. Either would work fine. Also he's Vlad2, so you can do WG theme and still be fine
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 30, 2017 22:37:26 GMT
Vlad2 is (in my opinion) the strongest all rounder in faction right now. I would argue that Strakhov1 also has it's spot up there. He is an incredibly strong general drop and pretty much struggles only against skews, incorporeal spam, super arm skew, infantry spam skew. He can deal with the rest. Don't you think Strak1 can handle infantry skews? I have Karchev in Jaws with all the jacks plus widowmakers to handle arm skews and incorporeal, and Strak 1 with all the Assassins, Behemoth, Grolar, Kodiak, Juggernaut and a Marauder which feels like it can handle dudespam OK. No?
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Post by auraco on May 31, 2017 1:55:11 GMT
You're probably right, the one time I played Strakhov1 in a dudespam (flameguard theme) he did all right. Come to think of it, he's probably ok with dudespam with so many models to trigger overrun. Ok so Strakhov1 pretty much struggles only against Incorporeal spam and super arm skew. That's why I usually pair him with B3 to handle that.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 31, 2017 11:15:01 GMT
You're probably right, the one time I played Strakhov1 in a dudespam (flameguard theme) he did all right. Come to think of it, he's probably ok with dudespam with so many models to trigger overrun. Ok so Strakhov1 pretty much struggles only against Incorporeal spam and super arm skew. That's why I usually pair him with B3 to handle that. Now imagine this (and yes, I'm trolling... no inside info here): Doomreaver graylord theme. Ruin is eligible in theme. One free solo for every 20 points. One unit gains 'ambush'. Now you've got armor and incorporeal.
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Post by auraco on May 31, 2017 11:39:12 GMT
That would be pretty dope, I'm curious to see how that theme will turn out, because we all know it's probably on it's way, the real question is how far down the line.
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Post by tapecrawler on May 31, 2017 16:28:27 GMT
Ambushing Doom Reavers? I like it! That's what I expect from an ambushing unit. Something that scares the pants off of my opponents and causes them to rethink their entire game plan. Not like Kossites, (some of my favorite models) that can be ignored in most cases by experienced players.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 31, 2017 21:26:51 GMT
I dunno, random insane bloodthirsty guys carrying glowing six-foot swords are not traditionally known for their ability to stealthily flank the enemy or wait patiently until the right time to strike.
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Post by chickenslayer on Jun 1, 2017 0:08:40 GMT
Suddenly I realise I've always wanted Ambushing Spray Donkeys in my life Anyway, Strakhov can play into most not-hardcore Infantry spam lists (like, you have to be basically Ghost Fleet or similar to be a problem, especially recursion matchups) simply cause all those infantry models double as sources of Overrun. Armour spam is generally a bigger issue I find: it's harder for him to chew through brick walls and they by nature provide less sources of Overrun triggers and generally value feats. That said, it's Strakhov. If you want to randomly beat Ghost fleet by killing Denny then there's few better sources of randomly murdering her. As for Ghost fleet in general, the issue to me right now is not countering it, but not awkwardly countering it. No sense making a list that beats Ghost Fleet if it can't play into anything else. Beyond that? You can generally play whatever you want
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 1, 2017 1:29:38 GMT
@soul Samurai - the I was looking at it is the greylord escort has the Doomies under control and make them catatonic if necessary.
@chicken Slayer - Outriders as an ambush unit? I like the way you think, Sir!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 1, 2017 6:45:30 GMT
@soul Samurai - the I was looking at it is the greylord escort has the Doomies under control and make them catatonic if necessary. Fair enough, but nevertheless it takes skill to quietly sneak around in order to flank and ambush people, skill that Doomreavers have no reason to posses (they are just random criminals and deserters after all, the swords make them good at chopping things up but that's about it), and skills that you probably lose anyway when you're catatonic. OK, ultimately all that fluffy stuff can be explained away ("Oh, they assign them special Greylords who are practiced in spells of concealment blah blah blah"), but the question is whether a highly independent, high-stat unit that can wreck both infantry and armour if they get close, should be given Ambush. I dunno, doesn't sound like something I would want to have to play against, but then I'm a crap player anyway. For context, what's the closest thing in the game to ambushing MAT 7 Berserk Weaponmasters right now?
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Post by skathrex on Jun 1, 2017 7:50:36 GMT
As for Ghost fleet in general, the issue to me right now is not countering it, but not awkwardly countering it. No sense making a list that beats Ghost Fleet if it can't play into anything else. Beyond that? You can generally play whatever you want That is the hardest Issue for me as well. Butcher3 is an okay solution, but I would prefer to play him in Jaws with Assasins and eliminators than in WG-Theme...it just doesn't click for me. Sorscha2 is something I want to make work on one hand, but evertime I try I would much rather play Sorscha1. S1 is incedentially one of the things I want to try out of theme against GF, because with Stealth Removal (Torch, Spriggan) she is crazy dangerous for Denny1. The way I think it works is that both Casters can't advance and feat (unless they catch the other and try to assasinate), because they die to retaliation. Meanwhile S1 just can keep the Blackbanes Frozen for ever and the WGRC (and maybe Fun Carriage) handle the Revenant Crew. In theme it would look very similar to your old list, Out of theme is something I need to work on. Zerkova1 is another pick, because she herself can single out the leaders and in Feat is pretty safe to do so, but I have no idea how good her Los is in SR17 or into GF. Conquest with objective could be something really good, or at least a Destroyer. OW1 in jaws would be a fun answer but not sure how viable that is. Not sure if Vlad1 is up to the task, and of course you could always tool Vlad2 to fight GF, but I feel he would loose to much. Of course one has to consider the other caster with which to play, but I think one of these can handle Cryx as a faction pretty well Oh and I hope somehow the Greylord theme buffs magic. Thats the whole stick. Ruin shouldn't be included imo, but maybe Valachev and a option to take Mercs with him (which would be awesome) They can do a lot of wonky stuff with this army. I just hope its something diffrent not +2" deployment or +1 to starting roll (how good they might be)
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 1, 2017 14:19:36 GMT
I guess the reason I like ambushing Doomies in a theme list is both Protectorate and Cryx have ambushing units. The Protectorate has stealth Daughters with parry and Cryx has mechanithralls. The thing I'm not sure about if the mechanithralls can take all of their attachments in ambush. It'll be expensive if they can, but pretty scary. Ten thralls, three brutes, and a skarlock commander coming in behind your main force seems like a total game changer.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 1, 2017 14:24:04 GMT
I doubt Doomies will get Ambush.
It's not really in their character, as they can only focus on murdering everything, and B: It's too powerful of an ambusher.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 1, 2017 14:32:19 GMT
As for Ghost fleet in general, the issue to me right now is not countering it, but not awkwardly countering it. No sense making a list that beats Ghost Fleet if it can't play into anything else. Beyond that? You can generally play whatever you want Completely agree. We have plenty of options that kick the crap out of ghost fleet. The problem that I see coming after CID banes+theme is that it's going to be really difficult to have a list pair that can deal with a Ghost Fleet + Banes Theme pairing. Which means having a Cryx a drop :s
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