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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 17:23:18 GMT
Make the shaped charge crit brutal and remove the high explosive ammo type. then you probably have a balanced unit.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 6, 2017 17:26:24 GMT
I think that the improvements for the Deliverers are CA territory. Which I would be fine with.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 6, 2017 17:28:39 GMT
Pow 14 brutal damage is probably the most broken thing ever suggested on this website
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 17:32:16 GMT
I think that the improvements for the Deliverers are CA territory. Which I would be fine with. I woudnt be cause they would have to make him crazy good and crazy cheap to make it worth it. I'd prefer the base unit to be worth it's points.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 6, 2017 17:33:31 GMT
Pow 14 brutal damage is probably the most broken thing ever suggested on this website Critical Brutal. On an Inaccurate POW 14. Yeah, it's perhaps a little OP, but I'd have to test to see if it's broken.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 6, 2017 17:37:12 GMT
He had it at not crit, and inaccurate only on the AOE shot.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 6, 2017 17:40:23 GMT
He had it at not crit, and inaccurate only on the AOE shot. Oh yeah. It'd have to keep inaccurate to gain that much POW with a 10 man unit.
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 6, 2017 19:57:12 GMT
I feel another potential theme could be the sacrifice/resurrection type thing or healing... High reclaimer was nerfed though.
But those feel Menothy... battle driven, VoJ miracles... miracles feel flavoury
>> or if we could convert these deaths into more stuff like Doors of judgment... you know after-death effects could be a pretty cool thing
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 6, 2017 20:12:03 GMT
I just wish we lived up to the "prayer" aesthetic we are supposed to have :/
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 20:43:38 GMT
I just wish we lived up to the "prayer" aesthetic we are supposed to have :/ Modding. Modding my dear swampist. Add all the purity seals
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 6, 2017 20:51:36 GMT
I'd be both very excited, and highly cautious, about oil in Menoth. There'd have to be a substantial downside to balance it out. My preference would be for it to be on a single-shot, low-RNG (like, 8") light jack. Allows for the complete destruction of a single target (Cleansers with Malekus feat and oil are doing POW12+4d6. That's taking down a colossal), but doesn't melt an entire army. I disagree. Oil would be fine without many limitations. It's about time the Fire faction actually could make fire do work again. Deliverers could be a good delivery platform. It would give them a purpose. Skyhammer Rocket: Range 16, Pow 10, AOE- Skyhammer Rocket Ammo: Choose 1 of the three ammo types below when an attack is made with this weapon. Shaped Charge: Increase the pow of this attack to 14 and gain Brutal Damage. This type of attack may not use the CRA rule. Oil Bomb: This attack does not cause any damage and gains Inaccurate. This attack becomes AOE3. Models hit by this attack gain Oil for 1 round. High Explosive: This attack becomes AOE3 and gains High Explosive(10) and Inaccurate. So Oil bomb and the High Explosive attack would be inaccurate. The direct hit attack would not. This would give Deliverers a nice niche as well as some toolbox ability. And no massive CRA laser beam of death, but their basic rockets could do some damage to a heavy when aimed and using the Shaped Charge. I'm not actually sure you know what a balanced unit looks like. This would be an insanely powerful unit that would taken in every list, forever.
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 6, 2017 21:09:56 GMT
I'd be both very excited, and highly cautious, about oil in Menoth. There'd have to be a substantial downside to balance it out. My preference would be for it to be on a single-shot, low-RNG (like, 8") light jack. Allows for the complete destruction of a single target (Cleansers with Malekus feat and oil are doing POW12+4d6. That's taking down a colossal), but doesn't melt an entire army. I disagree. Oil would be fine without many limitations. It's about time the Fire faction actually could make fire do work again. Deliverers could be a good delivery platform. It would give them a purpose. Skyhammer Rocket: Range 16, Pow 10, AOE- Skyhammer Rocket Ammo: Choose 1 of the three ammo types below when an attack is made with this weapon. Shaped Charge: Increase the pow of this attack to 14 and gain Brutal Damage. This type of attack may not use the CRA rule. Oil Bomb: This attack does not cause any damage and gains Inaccurate. This attack becomes AOE3. Models hit by this attack gain Oil for 1 round. High Explosive: This attack becomes AOE3 and gains High Explosive(10) and Inaccurate. So Oil bomb and the High Explosive attack would be inaccurate. The direct hit attack would not. This would give Deliverers a nice niche as well as some toolbox ability. And no massive CRA laser beam of death, but their basic rockets could do some damage to a heavy when aimed and using the Shaped Charge. So you looked at Rocketeers, and decided they needed +2" range, +2 POW, and they should also be 7pts cheaper than they would be if you could take them in a unit of 10 with no Rifle tax? In a faction with access to Hand of Fate, the Covenant of Menoth (to give them continuous fire), Stealth removal, and Purification or a Blessed aura on a warjack? Man, no wonder you're pessimistic about the faction if this is what you consider balanced.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 6, 2017 21:21:13 GMT
I just wish we lived up to the "prayer" aesthetic we are supposed to have :/ Modding. Modding my dear swampist. Add all the purity seals If I could rules to give more stuff prayers I would
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Jul 6, 2017 21:50:42 GMT
Fire is tricky. It's a mechanic which is an infantry auto kill, but isn't quite strong enough to threaten jacks.
I've been playing around with Feora2 over the past couple of weeks, and I feel like I've got an idea of her issues, and why she (and fire) aren't as effective as they could be.
Fire in game doesn't spread like it does in real life. Yes there are aoes that simulate it, but for the most part when something is on fire that's it. I like the suggestion of oil, that's really nice. It's a shame that the croak raiders have been balanced around it, so their weapons are a lower pow than in mk2.
One of feora2's issues is that she can make the fire dance, but she can't improve the fire's output, outside of caustic presence preventing it going out. Also she struggles to hit to get stuff on fire, and most infantry hit by her fire is immediately killed, meaning the amount of fire spread is minimal, and thus her focus gain is also minimal.
Fire sits in an odd place where it is both too strong and too limited. I love hand of judgement, as he creates value in the fire by making it hit harder, and makes him more focus efficient.
I like the idea of it spreading, so something like a model base2base with another model on fire has a chance of also bring set on fire. I don't know what that roll looks like or what the odds should be, it's just a suggestion.
In terms of "theme", it would be interesting to see the following:
A special rule that gives a model a hit bonus against a model already on fire.
A support model that provides an oil-like ability, so perhaps all hits made by a select model or unit cause continuous fire. (I know the book has this effect).
Perhaps a warjack specific rule, if a model nearby is destroyed by fire, that warjack gains a focus point.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 7, 2017 1:05:17 GMT
Fire step, I'm kinda in line with you. IMO the most frustrating thing about fire is how spiky the damage is. It'll likely kill any infantry, but it's 50/50 on doing any damage vs warjacks. That said, everyone remembers that time when you rolled exactly what you needed on a continuous fire and it finished off a heavy. That's awesome, and I want to keep that.
I am personally in favor of: -a light jack or solo with the ability to apply a limited amount of oil (1 shot, 8"-10" RNG). -more caustic presence, or something similar (fire on goes out on a 1, for example). -more fuel for the flames. Again, I think this needs to be handled carefully, like oil, but is also far harder to abuse. -more blazing wrath (notice how 3 of these are all on HoJ?). -more flare and/or stealth removal tied to fire-type shots (the thing is on fire. How can you not see it now?) -more burning ground. Lets light the battlefield on fire. -A jack with an Ashes to Ashes gun would be cool.
Again, it's tricky. Because putting in anything that synergizes with fire has to be balanced with what we have that already does fire. But it's possible, and I want more of it.
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