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Post by Demeritus on May 24, 2017 23:01:52 GMT
So as not to derail the Exemplar Theme thread any further, I wanted to make this and get peoples thoughts and opinions.
As a bit of background I have played this faction since 2007 and I will say that my experience in mk3 has not been the most enjoyable. I still win far more than I lose but the faction is just not fun for me and it no longer feels anything like its previous versions, its themes seem so very diluted compared to many other factions. At my store PoM has all but died and us "old hands" feel like the faction is bad Khador.
TL;DR what are everyones thoughts/feelings on the faction in mk3? Do you all feel like thematically it is the same faction? Does its playstyle feel like it should to you? Are you happy with where the faction is?
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Post by alanryan on May 25, 2017 0:40:05 GMT
we are not bad khador. we are worst khador.
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Post by paradox on May 25, 2017 1:05:43 GMT
Very strong. Coming back in after the last 6 months of MKII and first 6 months of MKIII in Circle, I definitely feel Menoth is in a very good place. We got some tradeoffs in the transition, but also picked up great new pieces. I get a very strong sense that many folks have alot of exploring left to do. Ive already unearthed some great gems that seem largely ignored.
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Post by Demeritus on May 25, 2017 2:07:15 GMT
Very strong. Coming back in after the last 6 months of MKII and first 6 months of MKIII in Circle, I definitely feel Menoth is in a very good place. We got some tradeoffs in the transition, but also picked up great new pieces. I get a very strong sense that many folks have alot of exploring left to do. Ive already unearthed some great gems that seem largely ignored. What kinds of gems, what sorts of exploring?
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on May 25, 2017 2:59:19 GMT
Very strong. Coming back in after the last 6 months of MKII and first 6 months of MKIII in Circle, I definitely feel Menoth is in a very good place. We got some tradeoffs in the transition, but also picked up great new pieces. I get a very strong sense that many folks have alot of exploring left to do. Ive already unearthed some great gems that seem largely ignored. What kinds of gems, what sorts of exploring? One thing I've heard multiple times is that the PoM playable warcaster stable is quite large. As in you can put down a warcaster and build around it and you can reasonably expect success. Even our C-tier casters (like Feora1/2) can still be played and are not just horrible. This allows a lot of flexibility for us and also allows for people who aren't stuck in a particular train of thought the ability to find hitherto-unknown effective combos.
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Post by paradox on May 25, 2017 3:07:15 GMT
Very strong. Coming back in after the last 6 months of MKII and first 6 months of MKIII in Circle, I definitely feel Menoth is in a very good place. We got some tradeoffs in the transition, but also picked up great new pieces. I get a very strong sense that many folks have alot of exploring left to do. Ive already unearthed some great gems that seem largely ignored. What kinds of gems, what sorts of exploring? Cleansers at present.
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Post by W0lfBane on May 25, 2017 3:43:17 GMT
I wonder what will happen if paradox gets tired of playing cleansers all day every day. I think protectorate is potent. I've built plenty of fun lists and i definately feel our casters have the tools to deal with any problems. Like our casters really shine now. But I'm still a bit salty about some of the wtf design changes this edition. Like getting rid of ancillary attack from the model that had it first in the game. Or the Harby feat reduction instead of giving her a new weaker feat. The exemplar theme benefits. The poor bastions. The poor delivers.
Like none of those are like the faction is hot garbage now. Whoever says that i feel is exagerating a bit. But some of those decosions are very questionable. Like i haven't had trouble remaining competitive i just want some of my nice toys back.
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Post by Demeritus on May 25, 2017 3:48:08 GMT
Oh I definitely agree the warcasters are a bright spot in the faction. I personally (whether right or wrong) am of the opinion that while our warcasters were strengthened heavily overall, the army was massively weakened and I do not feel like we were appropriately compensated for that loss.
I know my opinion is based on the way I enjoyed playing the faction which was that amazing jack line, and while a version of this still exists others can also run amazing jack lines and while our support used to make our jacks better to me, it feels like now it just puts them on par with other factions meaning we spend more to get the same as others whereas before we spent more to get more.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 3:48:43 GMT
Like getting rid of ancillary attack from the model that had it first in the game. Just taking issue with that singular point. Lots of things had their things shifted around. It's still a really good thingy, just doesn't allow for overkill. It was also before your faction had access to colossal's and the like. I know my opinion is based on the way I enjoyed playing the faction which was that amazing jack line, and while a version of this still exists others can also run amazing jack lines and while our support used to make our jacks better to me, it feels like now it just puts them on par with other factions meaning we spend more to get the same as others whereas before we spent more to get more. Not at ALL. This isn't me being angry, but you're really not at all. Compare to similar models and you will find that your support always brings them ahead of the curve, whilst still paying similar point cost prices.
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Post by W0lfBane on May 25, 2017 3:52:17 GMT
Except Ret. Ret had some nice jack support. Good thing their jacks are expensive base.
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Post by Demeritus on May 25, 2017 4:21:20 GMT
I know my opinion is based on the way I enjoyed playing the faction which was that amazing jack line, and while a version of this still exists others can also run amazing jack lines and while our support used to make our jacks better to me, it feels like now it just puts them on par with other factions meaning we spend more to get the same as others whereas before we spent more to get more. Not at ALL. This isn't me being angry, but you're really not at all. Compare to similar models and you will find that your support always brings them ahead of the curve, whilst still paying similar point cost prices. I'm not quite following you here (not trying to be obstinate) are you saying that the Protectorate jack support still puts it ahead of other factions?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 4:36:31 GMT
I'm not quite following you here (not trying to be obstinate) are you saying that the Protectorate jack support still puts it ahead of other factions? Yes. Il say you just don't see the ways your Jack Support puts you ahead because you're so used to it. Your one of the only Factions that easily and reliably Threaten Khadoran Jacks, and even your middling utility jacks all reach the level of Good Tier Beatsticks. Your lights seem to be at least interesting, and don't dip below Pow 15, and all your ranged guns don't hit weaker then Pow 14. I'm taking the choir into account, but that's my point. That's VERY hard hitting for relatively cheap costs. You have a good selection of Medium Cost Lights that all mainly focus on utility, and your heavies offer a wide gamut of stuff. If I as a Khadoran had the option, I would swap out Juggers for Crusaders almost every time. On top of the choir you still have access to large amounts of focus. Wracks and Vassals all provide some of the best focus access in the game. And Enliven lost its outright mouth watering BS aspect, but at least it allows you to save Vital Jacks and just carry them back to repairs, instead of having them just die. There are plenty of things to complain about in Menoth, but I don't think Jacks are one.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 25, 2017 12:09:50 GMT
I just feel like PP is sapped of creativity on us. We, to them, are exactly the showing we made in blood of kings: Amon shows up for no apparent reason, attacks a full scale royal escort with 2 dervishes and like 15 errants from the front, gets slapped like a dog with a rolled up newspaper, and runs away shaking his fist shouting "Curse you, you sexy awesome striker!"
Most of our non-warjack stuff runs, largely undefended, across the field. Sure, most of our casters that want infantry at all carry a delivery method of some sort, but it's bland. It's boring. We're the charging barbarians that get shot by the brave winterguard. IDK, I'm still all in the faction, but I want PP to show that someone at HQ is, too.
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on May 25, 2017 13:30:14 GMT
I just feel like PP is sapped of creativity on us. We, to them, are exactly the showing we made in blood of kings: Amon shows up for no apparent reason, attacks a full scale royal escort with 2 dervishes and like 15 errants from the front, gets slapped like a dog with a rolled up newspaper, and runs away shaking his fist shouting "Curse you, you sexy awesome striker!" Most of our non-warjack stuff runs, largely undefended, across the field. Sure, most of our casters that want infantry at all carry a delivery method of some sort, but it's bland. It's boring. We're the charging barbarians that get shot by the brave winterguard. IDK, I'm still all in the faction, but I want PP to show that someone at HQ is, too. You know, I kind of agree with you, but mostly for the latter. I think it's less that PP is sapped of creativity but more that it seems they're not exactly sure what the faction identity is supposed to be. For the longest time the PoM in fiction has been stagnant, but with the events of Godless here's hoping that the story moves forward and they figure out what to do with us.
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Post by paradox on May 25, 2017 14:02:09 GMT
I wonder what will happen if paradox gets tired of playing cleansers all day every day. I think protectorate is potent. I've built plenty of fun lists and i definately feel our casters have the tools to deal with any problems. Like our casters really shine now. But I'm still a bit salty about some of the wtf design changes this edition. Like getting rid of ancillary attack from the model that had it first in the game. Or the Harby feat reduction instead of giving her a new weaker feat. The exemplar theme benefits. The poor bastions. The poor delivers. Like none of those are like the faction is hot garbage now. Whoever says that i feel is exagerating a bit. But some of those decosions are very questionable. Like i haven't had trouble remaining competitive i just want some of my nice toys back. I didnt play cleasers for a whole year.
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