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Post by knightish on May 10, 2017 0:57:03 GMT
Hi Everyone I am just about to get a large second hand bundle of Ret off a mate. I am keen to give the Angry Elves a crack However, like all things warmachine / hordes. It is hard to know where to start. I really love the idea of Rahn and the collosal that pulls stuff. And The mix of lights and heavy with Vyros 2 (maybes a collosal with him too) I have come from playing Khador and Circle, Circle being my favourite faction currently (selling my khador) I love playing a team that require practice, and finesse and has a few tricks to it. I guess what I am asking, is are there any casters / units to avoid while learning, or any I should really give a crack, know I like to play a bit of Circle Jankiness. I prefer not to spam the same units / jacks too much (hence getting out of khador) Have currently got a couple of theory lists going, but keen to hear some actual ret players opinions of good fun, and competitive lists / casters to try out Also, Death to the humans. Filthy Humans.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on May 10, 2017 19:11:22 GMT
Here's my opinion for what it is worth. I strongly advice starting with well established casters, models and units. With that in mind, here's a list of things you should look to have according to what you listed in your post.
Warcasters Vyros2: You named him, he is an incredible caster, especially in Forges of War Rahn: You named him, strong caster, might not be the best in the current meta, I lack real game experience with him so can't really help you out here. Issyria: She's one of the best casters in the faction, she is just such a good generalist. Kaelyssa: She's the caster that is the most involved usually. She has an incredible feat and allows a really fun hit and run style. I suggest you read the guide I wrote on her if you want to know a little bit more. Helynna: She comes with the battlebox, she's a really fun caster to play and can run some really fun jack heavy lists. Once again, I wrote a guide on her, I suggest you start there for more information. She also happens to come in the Battlebox which is one of the best out there in terms of model usage.
Warjacks 3 Shyeel kit with magnets if you can, otherwise, at least 2 Manticores and one Hydra. The Phoenix is becoming pretty rare. 1 Vyre kit with magnets if you can, otherwise, at least one Banshee. Up to 5 Griffons. Don't get more, but you'll use up to 5. 1 Aspis 2 Chimeras Discordia Imperatus Helios/Hyperion kit
Units 1 unit of Sentinels 1 unit of Halberdiers (more if you like the Defenders of Ios theme) 2 units of Battle Mages if you want to play Rahn 1 unit of Mage Hunter Strike Force with Eyriss3 and the Commander
Solos 3 Arcanists 1 Artificier 1 Lys Healer Elara1
It's a big list, I can get more specific depending on which casters you plan on playing. Let us know what is in the lot you just acquired, we can dojo from there.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on May 10, 2017 21:00:39 GMT
Unless you have a specific set of models in mind, if you want to build a 'competitive' army the easiest place to start is the theme forces. I would pick a couple of warcasters that you like, pick a theme force that suits them, and build your armies accordingly. I know that many people like to build a la carte collections with a sample of everything, but I prefer to keep things more focussed. Don't buy something until you have a place in an army for it, otherwise you'll end up with a random mishmash of models and only ever use half of them.
You said you like Rahn and Vyros2. Great. They're both good warcasters and they work well as a pair. I would build a Forges of War theme force for Rahn, with Helios (the colossal that pushes stuff), a Chimera or two (the light arc node), and Discordia (Rahn's character myrmidon). Round it out with a unit or two of Battle Mages and some Arcanists.
If you want to build a more diverse army with Vyros2 I would stay away from theme forces, as a diverse Vyros2 army is best with Dawnguard and there isn't a Dawnguard theme force yet. You could reuse your Helios from your Rahn army with Vyros2, add Imperatus (Vyros' character myrmidon), and a couple of Griffons (melee lights). Then take a unit of Sentinels (Dawnguard heavy infantry) and some Arcanists. Or, if you really like the look of Dawnguard Destors or Invictors you could take them instead - the Destors are a very complicated unit to use but Vyros2 does nice things for them.
I don't think there are any warcasters to avoid, although Ravyn, Thyron, and Garryth are regarded as our weakest. Issyria and Elara2 are good warcasters for beginners because they are straightforward to use and work well with practically any unit in the faction.
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Post by sunrunner on May 11, 2017 13:39:07 GMT
I will second Mangled's model recommendations above, if you buy what he recommends you will have the foundation for almost all competitive lists. That is currently evolving as our new themes from the forces book just dropped and people are still seeing how viable we can Make Defenders of Ios and the others. The 2017 Steam roller rules as well as the Battle engine CID are still ongoing and some stuff is in the air until those are finalized. Buy the battle box unless you just have everything in it already from what you got off your mate. Helynna is a great caster to learn the game with and you will use all the models pretty regularly going forward. The Chimera is our go too cheap arc node, you will use Griffons and lots of them especially if your playing Vyros 2, and the Manticore is our go to utility heavy. I will say the Battle box is just a Manticore and not a kit, I just turned it into Discordia since its an upgrade kit and some of the bits are too small to magnetize practically so I ended up just doing a full assembly on Disco, but since its one of our most used Character heavy its not a loss and it still looks Manticore enough that you can downgrade it with no problems. His list is not gonna cover everything but you should be able to fill out to taste and unless your very focused on playing only 2 lists with little change up you will find your self reaching for what he recommended on a regular basis.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on May 12, 2017 10:17:00 GMT
I'm with the others, so I'll try not to repeat what they have already mentioned.
If you dislike spam lists, be aware that I found Vyros2 to run best with a high number of Griffons (6+) so unless you go the Colossal route (which is viable but not my personal preference) you might feel like you are playing a spam list.
I played Rahn with Helios (aka "the Colossal that pulls stuff") and found that the extra pushing, while fun, did not really impact the game in the way I had hoped. All things considered, I would rather have fielded a Hyperion. Thus I strongly advise you to magnetise the Helios/Hyperion kit so you can toy about with both options.
Aside from that, I also started the game with Circle. I found that Retribution nicely copies the tricks I loved while offering some very interesting new options (among them a much stronger ranged game and "hybrid" warjacks). For what it's worth, I feel convinced you will not regret picking up the angry elves!
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Post by nightflier on May 13, 2017 21:48:32 GMT
I'm still not convinced that the theme lists are the end all be for list design in the game. People will often argue that taking a model or unit isn't worth it because of the free points your missing out on. But you need to remember that the free points and extra benefits are at the expense of a more optimized list design, or are pigeon holed into a list with built in flaws, such as very limited model selection and lack of option for pathfinder. Particularly for someone just starting out with a faction.
I've found that vyros works well when running heavies and has a very good kit for most styles of lists. I personally like using heavies along side lights and a unit or two.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on May 14, 2017 2:14:20 GMT
I don't think themes contain the entirety of competitive Warmachine armies, and they certainly don't contain all of the fun or interesting ones. But themes are a useful place to start if you're just getting into the faction, especially if your basic idea for an army fits into one of the existing themes - i.e. Rahn with Battle Mages and myrmidons.
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Post by nightflier on May 14, 2017 17:37:46 GMT
I do think that building into the various factions jack/beast themes is at the very least worth looking into. Primarily due to the fact that heavies cost less than units do. Particularly if the battle box has heavies AND one of the lights are useful for many casters in multiples (ret is one that of them) it Ian worth getting two of them and a couple heavy kits and magnetize.
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Post by knightish on May 15, 2017 5:14:03 GMT
Hey Guys Thanks everyone for providing all the feedback. Seriously awesome. I have most of what you listed above between the various posts I am super excited about Rahn and Vyros I have a Colossal Kit on the way I think from everything above I need a couple of Griffons, Lys Healer (aka Taytay) an Artificer and maybe a heavy Kit or two I have a few, yeah I have the two character Jacks either in my hands or on the way Solid shit. I will post up a couple of theory hammered lists in a min
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Post by knightish on May 15, 2017 5:16:06 GMT
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Vyros 2 Theme
Theme: Forges of War 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard - WJ: +27 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Helios - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) - Imperatus - PC: 22
House Shyeel Magister - PC: 0 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
THEME: Forges of War ---
GENERATED : 05/15/2017 15:14:20 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - Rahn
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Adeptis Rahn - WJ: +26 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Phoenix - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Chimera - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Discordia - PC: 18
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 7
House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 9
---
GENERATED : 05/15/2017 15:15:54 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by knightish on May 15, 2017 5:21:37 GMT
War Room Army
Retribution of Scyrah - New Army
Theme: Forges of War 2 / 2 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Adeptis Rahn - WJ: +26 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Hyperion - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 26) - Chimera - PC: 8 - Chimera - PC: 8 - Discordia - PC: 18
House Shyeel Magister - PC: 0 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 4 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 House Shyeel Battle Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
THEME: Forges of War ---
GENERATED : 05/15/2017 15:21:24 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by Gaston on May 15, 2017 19:58:08 GMT
War Room Army Retribution of Scyrah - Vyros 2 Theme Theme: Forges of War 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard - WJ: +27 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Griffon - PC: 8 - Helios - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) - Imperatus - PC: 22 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 0 House Shyeel Magister - PC: 0 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 THEME: Forges of War --- GENERATED : 05/15/2017 15:14:20 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16 I ran this exact list the other week, but swapped a Griffon for a Chimera in order to turn on casting Lock the Target, no regrets at all. Just a suggestion!
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Post by knightish on May 26, 2017 1:12:14 GMT
Had my first game last night with Vyros 2. I won I love Ret I love the push pull shenanigans you can get off The Solos were amazing, and Helios is the tits. PS21 + 3 stacks of Syn + +2 from Solo + Charge attack = 42 dmg + on fire lol Warcaster was left on 2 boxes. Second attack may have been overkill lol Amazing!
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