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Post by sand20go on May 1, 2017 22:30:14 GMT
Ahh didn't see that one i guess. I stand corrected TEP OP I'm not throwing my lot in on either side of the "TEP OP" debate just yet. It is very strong, perhaps too strong, but that remains to be seen. What I can say is that I did see nearly every single Convergence player using one or more TEP's at Kingdomcon, and there was a lot of Convergence there, but that fact by itself does not make a model overpowered. One thing to keep in mind when you consider the TEP's power level is that its survivability has to be looked at outside of a simple "armor and boxes" analysis. This is a model that will always end its turn with 3 sac-pawn targets. This is also a model which can be played in a very prominent theme force that provides at least a dozen free shield guards. If we are talking about killing the TEP with melee attacks, then yes it's at a disadvantage compared to the other battle engines, but if we're talking about killing the TEP with guns, then it is in the best possible situation. Also, its gun is so potent that you are not killing it with melee infantry barring some very specific tech, and you can also have a hard time killing it with warjacks; because the gun can roll 5 dice for damage on its POW11. Let's say that you run your ARM19 warjack into position to attack it on the next turn; it can possibly spray that jack (twice) at five dice minus 8; so a total of 18 damage on average. That's a very strong defense. That is eloquently said much better than my 10 minutes between meetings allowed. The issue is TEP+theme. Absent those sac pawn targets it might be UNDER powered. Absent TS or Lucent's arm swing it probably is too close for comfort. But at 13 inches (TS) or ARM 23 that is where things get dicey because, as Juris points out, it is getting multiple turns worth of work done against the thing(s) you sent to kill it. now it _IS_ 19 points. Convergence is NOT OP'ed. But it did strike me how dubious it was, how common Convergence was, and how no one played convergence (that I saw) in either Masters or Team out of tier. |
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
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Post by Lanz on May 1, 2017 23:58:48 GMT
It has both the lowest durability and the shortest range of all the 'shooter' BEs. None of its defenses work against magic either. There's plenty to exploit there. By contrast, the AFG is 2 points cheaper, ARM 22 vs shooting, can't be charged, and can be making aimed shots from 16" away.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 2, 2017 0:06:30 GMT
Well, considering you could not participate and not have to worry I don't think it's a big deal?
They also announce what is going into CID well before the CID cycle for it starts. One of the PPGs mentioned that theres a Trencher CID coming up for example. So you have like at least 2 months notice.
It's not any different from an errata. Except you know in advance what is being erratad and you know it will be for the better.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 2, 2017 0:56:26 GMT
Regarding the CID...
1) I love it. I think pre-releasing new stuff and getting community feedback on models is really healthy for the game. I saw how the whole processes played out for OW2 during the Grymkin CID, and it's great.
2) In terms of rules changes on existing stuff, except for emergency patch fixes (which we see now anyway via Infernal rulings), PP is sticking with the 2/year errata process. So, I don't think we need to worry about losing track of rules. Just wait for the next errata.
3) PP releases new models in between errata cycles. I'd rather they do that with CID input.
In general...There have been a lot of new models and new themes released lately. I don't think you can blame *that* on the CID. If I tried to follow all those releases for the other factions, I think I'd get a bit overwhelmed. I generally only pay attention if everyone starts talking about it.
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Post by Netherby on May 2, 2017 7:08:22 GMT
Nothing for the CID process has been released. So all the new stuff that has been coming out every month is simply PPs standard release cycle. Remember all the theme lists are part of Mk3 changes.
I don't think you will be seeing anything from the CID until around the mid year errata any way. It's not something that is changing their errata or release cycle, it simply lets them get people to play test their stuff for free.
You may face a problem with your usual player group wanting to participate in the CID. In that case you need to ask them to play a standard game... Though I think in the future the number of models in CID will be pretty small, so you may not hate participating as much.
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 2, 2017 11:45:31 GMT
The main difference is development process have been made public with cid. You would get a lot of errata rules updates, new releases and themes anyway. They would just have more bugs and there would be less feedback.
Specifically:
- sr 2017 was scheduled regardless of cid
- khador book release was scheduled regardless of cid
- we were promised to get bad models buffed (i.e. Battle engines, banes) regardless of cid
tl;dr don't blame cid, blame pp policy of frequent updates if you don't like them. Cid is actually a good thing from any perspective, as it keeps updates in check by providing feedback.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 2, 2017 13:18:14 GMT
It has both the lowest durability and the shortest range of all the 'shooter' BEs. None of its defenses work against magic either. There's plenty to exploit there. By contrast, the AFG is 2 points cheaper, ARM 22 vs shooting, can't be charged, and can be making aimed shots from 16" away. The AFG has a distinct lack of 5 dice damage/hit sprays, though. |
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Post by mikethefish on May 2, 2017 14:39:26 GMT
I don't find it annoying by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, the CID has re-invigorated my love of the game, and having new elements pop up from time to time, has made the game even more interesting.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on May 2, 2017 16:08:31 GMT
It has both the lowest durability and the shortest range of all the 'shooter' BEs. None of its defenses work against magic either. There's plenty to exploit there. By contrast, the AFG is 2 points cheaper, ARM 22 vs shooting, can't be charged, and can be making aimed shots from 16" away. The AFG has a distinct lack of 5 dice damage/hit sprays, though. Yes, and that's obviously one of the TEP's major perks. The AFG doesn't hit as hard but brings more toolboxes instead. |
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Post by Netherby on May 3, 2017 9:30:11 GMT
I don't think there should be any argument that the TEP *IS* overpowered. But it's in a faction that has so few options it sort of has to be that way. It's in every CoC list because it *NEEDS* to be.
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