|
Post by khadorjack on May 1, 2017 13:24:30 GMT
I mean... i really love this game, since the first match i had years ago, but now with this CID thing, every week or every month i have new rules to learn, different stats of a lot of pieces to keep in mind, theme lists, new relases... now also the cards won't be included in the boxes but i have to download and print them (no smartphone, no warrom)...
Because of my job i can play warmachine only in autumn-winter, and after the summer i'm afraid i'll have to learn a whole new game thanks to all these developements... Am i the only one who thinks this is a bit annoying?
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 1, 2017 13:26:03 GMT
I mean... i really love this game, since the first match i had years ago, but now with this CID thing, every week or every month i have new rules to learn, different stats of a lot of pieces to keep in mind, theme lists, new relases... now also the cards won't be included in the boxes but i have to download and print them (no smartphone, no warrom)... Because of my job i can play warmachine only in autumn-winter, and after the summer i'm afraid i'll have to learn a whole new game thanks to all these developements... Am i the only one who thinks this is a bit annoying? That is a problem I have thought of. A Never ending grind wheel of development. BUT. New Models come out anyway, might as well have each one be cool and useful. Plus at least it gives something to do every game I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by GumbaFish on May 1, 2017 13:45:02 GMT
Well you don't have to partake in CID and in that case you will only see periodic updates instead of the weekly changes during the process itself. Depending on how often they are running these cycles I could see it becoming a problem though because they could always be two states of the game, the current rules and whatever is going through the beta process via CID. I think right now we are seeing the biggest changes though because of the introduction of an entirely new faction and the alteration of scenarios which influence everyone who chooses to play with them. I would suspect after that the changes should usually be minimal to existing models and most of the focus would be on new releases or actually bringing up currently underperforming miniatures.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on May 1, 2017 14:11:51 GMT
No, you are not the only one. Personally I feel like I can't count on anything I think I know anymore because it might have changed and I might have missed it or just forgotten (getting old...). There is definitely a downside to the whole "constant tweaks" process, but I guess it's a fair tradeoff for having a living, dynamic yet (hopefully) balanced game.
|
|
|
Post by The Trane on May 1, 2017 15:07:50 GMT
Totally agree with these concerns, but I suspect we'll see an initial burst of changes to existing models, and then the CID will mainly be about new ones.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on May 1, 2017 15:50:22 GMT
It's probably worth suggesting that cid rules not go into official play until each bi-annual errata. So even with atuff changing constantly you aren't obligated to update or use any new rules and they aren't tournament legal until their changes go through with everything else.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on May 1, 2017 16:56:59 GMT
I've been liking the CID so far, I'd rather play with having to learn the constant change, than having to play a game with something broken like Una2 pre nerf lasting for several month. I like that the broken stuff can get spotted before it is actually tournament legal.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on May 1, 2017 18:29:33 GMT
I think the CID is good.
What I am a bit worried by is that they CID'ed the Battle Engines and PARTICULARLY that they haven't looked at the TEP. They were auto-includes in every COC list at Kingdom con and COC was WELL represented. It is stupid good with several COC casters. Fun Carriage is good too but not back breaking. But when you have 3 respawning Sac pawn things....and when you have a caster with Tac Surpremacy that is very common (and has not other really good target for that spell) you have to figure that the TEP is shooting off either 1 Five dice POW 11 (so average of about POW 29 (and spikes) every turn....or 2 POW 25s AND end up 13 inches away (so essentially untouchable). Especially against Khador when they don't need to boost it becomes a challenge - even more so since sending a jack over to get the TEP likely means it is easily dragged to its demise by Primes.
To me it smacks of "well we better sell more of these models that we have in the warehouse."
BTW - an additional note - it was funny that many of those COC armies were NOT painted. Essentially it was powergamers going for the power list.
|
|
|
Post by Voodoogk on May 1, 2017 20:44:59 GMT
LOL Yep, convergence so over powered with the TEP that they were not even in masters at all. The TEP is good but it has to be to make up for deficiencies elsewhere in the army. They'd need to Cid convergence to fix it.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on May 1, 2017 21:31:35 GMT
I think the CID is good. What I am a bit worried by is that they CID'ed the Battle Engines and PARTICULARLY that they haven't looked at the TEP. They were auto-includes in every COC list at Kingdom con and COC was WELL represented. It is stupid good with several COC casters. Fun Carriage is good too but not back breaking. But when you have 3 respawning Sac pawn things....and when you have a caster with Tac Surpremacy that is very common (and has not other really good target for that spell) you have to figure that the TEP is shooting off either 1 Five dice POW 11 (so average of about POW 29 (and spikes) every turn....or 2 POW 25s AND end up 13 inches away (so essentially untouchable). Especially against Khador when they don't need to boost it becomes a challenge - even more so since sending a jack over to get the TEP likely means it is easily dragged to its demise by Primes. To me it smacks of "well we better sell more of these models that we have in the warehouse." BTW - an additional note - it was funny that many of those COC armies were NOT painted. Essentially it was powergamers going for the power list. But they DID do something to the TEP - they left it alone. In an environment where all the other battle engines are getting significantly tankier, and often cheaper with better rules/attacks - buffs across the entire model type - the TEP is the only one that was left as-is and is now the squishiest of battle engines in terms of raw durability yet it has a close-range gun. I'm pretty sure if their goal was to sell more TEPs, they would have buffed it, not buffed everything else.
|
|
|
Post by Voodoogk on May 1, 2017 21:52:53 GMT
Yeah that's the other bit... Highly accurate. If it doesn't get more hp, convergence might even start disliking it compared with ours. I did play that 38 point version once this weekend. It was amazing.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on May 1, 2017 22:10:44 GMT
LOL Yep, convergence so over powered with the TEP that they were not even in masters at all. The TEP is good but it has to be to make up for deficiencies elsewhere in the army. They'd need to Cid convergence to fix it. Convergence was in the masters. Did Peter's pair not have a TEP in either list? I would be very surprised if that were the case...
|
|
|
Post by Voodoogk on May 1, 2017 22:12:48 GMT
LOL Yep, convergence so over powered with the TEP that they were not even in masters at all. The TEP is good but it has to be to make up for deficiencies elsewhere in the army. They'd need to Cid convergence to fix it. Convergence was in the masters. Did Peter's pair not have a TEP in either list? I would be very surprised if that were the case... Ahh didn't see that one i guess. I stand corrected TEP OP
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on May 1, 2017 22:19:45 GMT
I mean... i really love this game, since the first match i had years ago, but now with this CID thing, every week or every month i have new rules to learn, different stats of a lot of pieces to keep in mind, theme lists, new relases... now also the cards won't be included in the boxes but i have to download and print them (no smartphone, no warrom)... Because of my job i can play warmachine only in autumn-winter, and after the summer i'm afraid i'll have to learn a whole new game thanks to all these developements... Am i the only one who thinks this is a bit annoying? Considering the fact that literally NOTHING from CID has been officially released to the public I would say you are exaggerating.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on May 1, 2017 22:19:56 GMT
Convergence was in the masters. Did Peter's pair not have a TEP in either list? I would be very surprised if that were the case... Ahh didn't see that one i guess. I stand corrected TEP OP I'm not throwing my lot in on either side of the "TEP OP" debate just yet. It is very strong, perhaps too strong, but that remains to be seen. What I can say is that I did see nearly every single Convergence player using one or more TEP's at Kingdomcon, and there was a lot of Convergence there, but that fact by itself does not make a model overpowered. One thing to keep in mind when you consider the TEP's power level is that its survivability has to be looked at outside of a simple "armor and boxes" analysis. This is a model that will always end its turn with 3 sac-pawn targets. This is also a model which can be played in a very prominent theme force that provides at least a dozen free shield guards. If we are talking about killing the TEP with melee attacks, then yes it's at a disadvantage compared to the other battle engines, but if we're talking about killing the TEP with guns, then it is in the best possible situation. Also, its gun is so potent that you are not killing it with melee infantry barring some very specific tech, and you can also have a hard time killing it with warjacks; because the gun can roll 5 dice for damage on its POW11. Let's say that you run your ARM19 warjack into position to attack it on the next turn; it can possibly spray that jack (twice) at five dice minus 8; so a total of 18 damage on average. That's a very strong defense.
|
|