|
Post by benjamini on Jul 10, 2018 13:21:54 GMT
I'd take even just Aiyana and Holt... and I HATE paying for Aiyana and Holt, but that whole thing would be delightful.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Jul 9, 2018 17:16:42 GMT
To both of you: I agree, but sometimes I worry that all the rest of that drowns out the voices of us who are looking to see some change in the faction. It can be a frustrating conversation to have. They may be correct in the essence, but I'm kind of tired of people playing meta boogieman lists trying to tell me that my jack-heavy lists are overpowered. (It does happen). (admittedly reworded for hyperbole) "You're not really speed 4 because you have speed buffs, (but I'm going to field a centurion and spend a focus or cast TK or something to negate most of those charge-based speed buffs)" "Your ADR roster is fine, (even though Jaws basically doesn't have a theme benefit beyond free stuff and none of your warcasters they gave you actually want to run it) because Khador Jacks are so good" Maybe I sound more negative than I mean to, I've been playing Khador for a good while now, and always seem to find some new thing to draw my attention .
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Jul 9, 2018 15:51:49 GMT
I agree with pretty much all of these points, but weirdly I often find that some people I encounter and discuss these shortcomings with seem to be under the outdated impression that our shortcomings were justified because our jacks "are hard to kill" and "hit hard", neither point I particularly agree with outside of some specific cases. It can be frustrating to deal with in conversation sometimes . Any of you guys run into stuff like this? There were some folks on the CID that were really up in arms about this if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Jun 19, 2018 15:04:28 GMT
wait, she lost Banishing Ward? What rock have I been living under!? I guess that does keep you safe from the wyrds, and hex blast removes can remove any rebukes that happen. So that's something at least. Yeah, I find that my normal games with most Khador casters end turn 4-5, but when I play Kruegar into a caster like Zerkova it's usually 6 or 7.
edit: MK III apparently is the rock I have been living under. I guess I need to look places other than Vlads, Old Witches, Butchers and Sorschas from time to time
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Jun 19, 2018 13:27:30 GMT
I am a filthy traitor and actually play a Kruegar 2 list very similar to this from time to time (I don't own a Fulcrum... and yes I play a lot of factions ), so I can offer both a Khador and a bit of a Circle perspective on this. Circle Perspective:I'm not going to lie, Kruegar 2 Bones is a rough time for a lot of lists. Usually when I play the list though, I'm looking to use that battery of control effects to win the game on scenario, so a list that can impede me doing that is going to be a bad time. The list really likes to see a large number of points invested in a minimal number of targets (ie, lots of heavies) because those are some of the highest impact telekinesis targets, and Lightning storms can offer a pretty good field of "Light Infantry can't go here", and the windstorm makes things awkward for shooting infantry. So that's actually a pretty wide range of coverage. Telekinesis only has an 8" range as well, and can only be cast once by each heavy, so there comes a point where it can't really efficiently control heavy infantry. So I think MoW might be a good way to go. Unfortunately the list ALSO has Rebuke, so if you want to go this route, it is important to keep some way of stripping this (or preventing it from ending up on the unit in the first place) in place. Two last important details: -Wolds generally have a lower fury threshold than living beasts, and (beyond Stoneshapers) the list doesn't really buff their damage output -When Kruegar casts windstorm, his range is only 14". After the first couple turns his beasts will usually get ahead of him, so long range shooting (most heavies, rockets, etc) will still be able to draw a bead on the Heavies if you want to go that route. Khador PerspectiveI really think that a good way to go about this is playing the MoW card, particularly with a caster who doesn't use a large number of upkeeps to get the most out of their infantry. I really think the MoW theme is the best option in general that Khador has into this list. Sorscha 3 comes to mind as a pretty good option to play into this because a lot of her support happens outside of upkeeps. Shock troopers can't be pushed by the feat(but will unfortunately be slowed down), so they are only really afraid of rebuke. Just don't cast Iron flesh if you're worried about the wyrds. TK can be used to place shock troopers out of shield wall, so I would keep this in mind while positioning your troops in order to minimize the damage from that. If one of your jacks gets TK'd away, keep in mind that giving it stoke the flames and running will (usually) still get it in melee range of the Heavy that cast TK to trigger flank with the Infantry. As some others have identified above, Zerkova 1 is probably the strongest candidate Khador has to play into this list specifically. Banishing Ward means that one model/unit can just give no firetrucks and go about doing what it would normally do as far as control goes. Cloud walls can be used to prevent the wyrds from drawing a bead. Ghostly can help deal with any forests that crop up. You've got options here!
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Jun 16, 2018 13:43:43 GMT
(So far) I've bought (and spent the past night assembling):
Sorscha Dragos 1x MoW Bombardier UA 2x Suppression Tanker 1x Chariot
Atannas is still to come!
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on May 30, 2018 19:55:03 GMT
Never said it was the best list! But you are correct in assuming that the basic win condition here is a little scatterbrained. Perhaps to it's detriment. I've played 9 games with it so far, and usually they will go down:
Turn 1: -Advance move the Shockies/Bombardiers forward with the bombardiers near a close zone if there are any. -Run everything forward turn 1 with the help of the kovniks. Put Scrapjack somewhere useful, maybe Unseen path up if it's safe - hand out upkeeps as required.
Turn 2: -Depending on what the opponent has, run or shield wall shock troopers forward (watch for jacks/beasts or multiwound infantry immune to knockdown) but be fairly aggressive, assaulting is also an option if the opponent has been aggressive and allowed it. -Pop Old Witch feat and/or place murder of crows to deny charges (cover as much of the infantry as possible, use murder of crows to zone if you need to), this turn is tight on focus, but if you didn't have to wait until this turn to feat, you can often get Avatar of Slaughter up (who you give it to will depend on enemy composition) -walk the bombardiers and shoot if something is in range
From here on out the rest of your game will depend on how your opponent reacts to this / the overall board state. In most case, you have some options, the main gameplan is to keep your opponent on their back foot and lock your them out of the scenario. Old Witch being Old Witch, assassination runs are always on the board if scrappy is alive and your opponent gets careless as well.
On the subject of Aiyana and Holt, I agree that they probably don't actually need to be there, and may be phased out as more models become available to me... I'd actually really like to phase either Atannas or some Demo Corps in once Dragos becomes available, but for the time being I am still paranoid about dealing with things that require magic weapons to deal with. There are is quite a lot of that floating around here. I am also not convinced the Spriggan is absolutely... but that is another story.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on May 30, 2018 18:23:22 GMT
Hey Guys!
With AK looming on the horizon, I've been messing around with some lists, and it's only natural that I get the most games in with my favourite caster! I think that there's a fair amount she has to offer AK, even if most of it doesn't come in the form of offensive buffs. This probably isn't the most competitive list out there, but so far I have been met with some a surprising amount of success into some things I had struggled with in the past with MoW lists, I think some of her stock in this kind of list might go down once more of the supporting MoW releases come out in a month. In the mean time I've tried to keep the proxies of pre-released models low and have been running it without the Bombardier UA (he's a forge seer) in the past in a couple smaller local events. I think I'm going to try to find a way to work in Suppression Tankers once they are released!
As for the ways that I've found Granny to be helpful: -Iron flesh is handy to have around on models with non-existent Def -Murder of Crows/her feat can be used to keep hostile warrior models honest (important as I see weaponmasters being a big risk into MoW). -Weald Secrets has some useful applications both on the pathfinder and ignoring concealment/cover fronts -Old Witch or Scrapjack given Avatar of Slaughter can be useful for clearing jamming infantry out of the way of the MoW -It should NEVER be counted on, but more than once I've gallows'd something into the mini-feat double shot range of the Bombardiers that the opponent was expecting to keep safe.
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains a pre-release entry.
[Old Witch 1] The Old Witch of Khador [+18] - Decimator [15] - Spriggan [17] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)] Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [0(5)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on May 10, 2018 14:09:05 GMT
I mean, they definitely buffed all the Man-o-War stuff to sell all that Man-o-War stock, and you guys were cool with it then. So what's the difference? They buffed Man-o-wars, but gave us mostly modest buffs tied to UAs and characters that have to be taken on top, and nerfed some of our jacks in the process. I am excited about the Man-o-War releases, don't get me wrong, but these things are not equal.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on May 2, 2018 20:27:20 GMT
auraco I'm not sure I always agree on the "providing answers" thing, we do have tools... sometimes... They're often caster based, which locks you into playing certain casters if you want to compete. I will agree that I appreciated the 3 list format as well, It helped to an extent. It did make me feel a little less down about being basically REQUIRED to bring Aiyana and Holt (seriously, I hate feeling like I have to build them into lists). Hell, Legion of Steel just straight up can't deal with Incorporeal models outside of the caster because they decided to disallow character units for no apparent reason. Recursion is becoming more and more popular and we have roughly two ways of stopping that from happening. Cloud walls are also a problem that basically require Vlad 2 to deal with (our other anti-cloud tech, Assault Kommandos, have their share of problems that don't look like they'll be solved any time soon). To boot, our army as whole feels super vulnerable to debuffs and control (because we rely primarily on Arm, so you really only need to debuff one stat and we have low base movement speeds) without widespread mechanisms to overcome this. The Juggy Nerf just sent a message that some factions are "allowed" to spam cheap heavies, and others are not. Sorry, This is getting more negative than I wanted it to. Normally I'd see this as just as another challenge to overcome... but logging onto war room and seeing ~80% of my lists with red marks beside them for being over the point limit was disheartening. For what it's worth, I am also on the "Jaws is not great" train, maybe if it had a theme benefit that actually impacted the game on a regular basis I'd like it more... but meh.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on May 2, 2018 19:31:49 GMT
I was pretty active during the CID, and not a whole lot has changed since the end of that. So on a case by case my opinion on everything is still relatively positive! They're cool models and I look forward to picking them up upon release.
On a more general scale - I feel kind of let down by the fact that the Juggy's point increase stuck. If I am being honest, I've been feeling kind of down on Khador as a faction for the past month or so, and that just kind of drove the point home. When I was preparing for the SOO, I felt really trapped and sucked into playing things other than what I actually wanted to play because I wanted a chance at being competitive and SR 2017 wants a list to check off certain boxes compete and we only have a few things that check those boxes sprinkled throughout our faction (even left out of some themes!). It didn't help that the general attitude from PP we saw during the CID was that there wasn't a problem in their eyes, and that kind of sucked. Perhaps I just hoped too much that we'd see some quality of life tweaks in the update that never came.
I bought into Khador years ago understanding it was the "no frills" faction, and I still appreciate that about it... but sometimes it feels like that just leaves us without answers, and since we don't often ask many difficult questions of our own... that's not a great place to be.
Sorry for being a downer guys, I'm trying to stay positive. I am holding out hope that this feeling will pass soon.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Apr 23, 2018 13:00:36 GMT
I really want Zerkova 2 to be good at stuff... she has a really cool model and the like, but sometimes it seems like the game/meta doesn't seem to agree with me that she should be.
This list looks like it (or something like it) could be interesting, I definitely thought about Zerkova 2 when I saw Sorscha 0! My biggest question though is why the Spriggans? What are you hoping to get out of them here that a different jack couldn't do well?
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 13:43:48 GMT
I actually liked the chariots quite a bit in the CID, but to each their own! Pretty excited about the AK stuff, though I hope there aren't any surprises with the CID rules drop.
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 12:41:29 GMT
Yeah it's booring, I'm not a fan, it's a theme you take mostly for the free points. Unless I play Strakhov1 I don't usually have a jaws list in my pairing and I don't miss it. At the SOO in the 3 list masters I had 2 WGK list and one Wolves list and I was very comfortable with my pairing. Two WGK and a Wolves would have probably been more exciting, I can agree with that. AK should be a little more interesting once the CID update drops and it is fleshed out a little more (even though it still has a theme benefit that is based around battle mechaniks, which is less than ideal).
|
|
|
Post by benjamini on Apr 11, 2018 0:51:53 GMT
I too went to the SOO and had my jacks blown off the table like they were nothing. Now i did make some mistakes mainly during list selection but it just seems that no matter where i put my jacks the oppenent was able to put high quality shots into them. I actually didn't have that much trouble with shooting! I did kind of feel like my jacks were pretty trivial to remove sometimes though...
|
|