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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 6, 2022 6:48:24 GMT
Quick 50 point version of a list idea: conflictchamber.com/?c3200O_-1S71kYkYkYkYnj8hnf89nf89nfnf[Theme] Wolves of Winter [Butcher 2] Kommander Orsus Zoktavir [+28] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Mad Dog [8] - Greylord Adjunct [0(3)] Koldun Lord [0(3)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] OK, hear me out... ... I just find the idea of running "Mad Dogs" with actual Mad Dogs amusing. But on a more serious note, I've been wondering if Mad Dogs might not be terrible under warcasters with damage buffs thanks to their built-in speed buff. Four attacks (more with Feat or if you're willing to risk blowing up) at P+S 17 with 12" (14" with Conferred Rage) threat range sounds OK for 8 points. Of course you probably wouldn't actually want more than one to start the piece trade with, but where's the fun in that? Well, I've never actually tried a Mad Dog, but I did pick up a Berserker multi-kit recently so maybe I'll give one a try eventually. Fingers crossed. |
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Post by michael on Jun 6, 2022 12:55:02 GMT
If you try it, please tell us how it turns out!  |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 6, 2022 16:43:38 GMT
If you're referring to the "4 Mad Dogs 4 Doom Reaver squads" list, then naah, I don't run spam. But I will probably run one Mad Dog under Butcher2 eventually. I did promise a Sorscha2 game ofc, so that might have priority.
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Post by Havock on Jun 6, 2022 20:19:01 GMT
The biggest problem with Mad Dogs is that POW14 is absolutely garbage.
I mean, I could see running a bunch of Berserkers with Kozlov* because he casually bumps up their MAT and effective P+S to a reasonable level but MD's are specific infantry-trampling machines.
*Marauders exist though.
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Post by michael on Jun 6, 2022 22:17:37 GMT
I would offer to try it, but I am never going to assemble four Mad Dogs and I probably won’t use B2 any time soon again either.  |
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Post by michael on Jun 6, 2022 22:18:43 GMT
The biggest problem with Mad Dogs is that POW14 is absolutely garbage. I mean, I could see running a bunch of Berserkers with Kozlov* because he casually bumps up their MAT and effective P+S to a reasonable level but MD's are specific infantry-trampling machines. *Marauders exist though. Kozlov and Sorscha3 are the two places I can see myself possibly running Berserkers, yes. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 8, 2022 7:10:57 GMT
The biggest problem with Mad Dogs is that POW14 is absolutely garbage. Yeah, it's head-scratchingly low for a heavy warjack. I guess Kozlov can technically get them up to P+S 19, maybe they could have a place with him? I have yet to actually play Kozlov myself, I've been saving him for new players... if we ever get any... |
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Post by Havock on Jun 8, 2022 7:53:15 GMT
It's not a heavy, it's a fat, slow, light.
9/10 times you're better off with a Berserker, 9/10 times of that, you're better off with a Marauder.
The Berserker goes to MAT8 and swings a pair of PS18's with no help other than gang fighter, Kozlov hands them Pathfinder and no-KD, I wouldn't say it's fantastic but you can get 4 Berserkers for about the same cost as 3 Marauders.
The Mad Dog, meanwhile just can't find a reason to exist.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 8, 2022 8:48:51 GMT
It's not a heavy, it's a fat, slow, light. I mean, yes, but PP claims otherwise... it has the Strength stat of a heavy, but it's melee weapons have the POW stat of a stick of wilted celery. They have a lower POW stat than an open fist, without even the advantage of an open fist... The Mad Dog, meanwhile just can't find a reason to exist. IT HAS A BUILT-IN SPEED BUFF! It's Khador's fastest warjack! There HAS to be a way to make that work! Right? ... right? |
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 8, 2022 10:35:59 GMT
I haven't tried a full-on spam list but I did try to make the Archaic Chassis jacks work some time ago. I think my best results were with Sorscha3 of all people; required absolutely no input on her part for a hit and damage boost, and the Berzerker becoming a MAT8 PS16 weaponmaster was somewhat threatening. Mad dog still sucked though. I imagine the same would hold true of Kozlov, as others have mentioned, but he didn't have the Field Marshal ability when I was last playing him.
I briefly entertained the idea of a Mad Dog as an Arc Node on Zerkova2 after the mega update... but since I haven't played any games since then it remains a pipe dream
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Post by The Snark Knight on Jun 8, 2022 17:54:20 GMT
More like Sad Dogs, amIrite?
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Post by Havock on Jun 10, 2022 12:06:45 GMT
IT HAS A BUILT-IN SPEED BUFF! It's Khador's fastest warjack! There HAS to be a way to make that work! Right? ... right?
SPD6 isn't earth-shattering really. Not on a deficient platform like that.
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Post by leotherat on Jun 10, 2022 13:43:57 GMT
It doesn't really matter how fast you get to someone to hit them with a feather. You're still hitting them with a feather.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 10, 2022 15:59:51 GMT
IT HAS A BUILT-IN SPEED BUFF! It's Khador's fastest warjack! There HAS to be a way to make that work! Right? ... right? SPD6 isn't earth-shattering really. Not on a deficient platform like that.
I can't tell if you picked up on the humorous intent of my post? It doesn't really matter how fast you get to someone to hit them with a feather. You're still hitting them with a feather. Which is why I'm talking about running them on casters who have damage buffs but maybe don't have as much access to speed buffs as you might like for a melee jack. After all, there's plenty of cheap heavies in other factions who have 1" or even 2" native threat range advantage over most of our jacks; throw a speed buff on one of those (or a damage buff on a fast light) and suddenly Boundless Charge doesn't really cut it anymore for our melee jacks. You could take a Spriggan for 17 points, or two Mad Dogs for 16 points and have an extra inch of threat range. I'm not saying it's better, I'm just wondering if it could be decent.
And hey, quantity is a quality of it's own. Even if you can't damage anything really, throwing a cheap but fast ARM 18 heavy into something to keep it busy for a turn and stop it from scoring is better than wanting to throw a moderately priced slow ARM 20 heavy at something to stop it scoring for a turn but not being able to because your jacks are too slow. But hey, maybe that's just something I need to do sometimes because I'm not a very good player, I dunno.
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Post by Havock on Jun 11, 2022 14:34:17 GMT
I did but I still wanted to raise the point.
In the case of Sorscha3 the extra SPD isn't really that important because you're assisting against mostly SPD4 models. In the case of Kozlov you're... Going up to MAT8 PS16. Yay? We don't exactly lack accurate mid P+S swings.
Like, much as I like to rag on the Berserker chassis, it can at least do something there by starting out at a salvageable PS16.
That's MAT8 PS18 under Kozlov, nothing else needed and Ragman is dirt cheap nowadays.
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