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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2021 11:37:41 GMT
In the rare occasion that I've gotten to play Warmachine in the last few years, I've been playing themeless. Partly because my model selection is not great, and partly because I've mainly been playing demo games or against new players who are also running themeless. But my friend just put together a themed list. So while I'll probably play a themeless list against at first, I think I might have to finally bite the bullet and start playing in-theme. So here's an attempt at a 50 point theme list that only uses models I actually own: conflictchamber.com/?c3200O_-1S7c7p8CnjhF8hpu86758Inf89Khador [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Destroyer [13] - Torch [17] - Greylord Adjunct [3] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Koldun Lord [3] Orsus the Chained [7] Battle Mechaniks (min) [2] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [16] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] That's 46 out of 50 points. The remaining 4 points will be a Merc solo; I'm thinking Harlan Versh just because I like him, but other possibilities are Action Saxon or Kell. I suppose I could drop the mechanics (they are only there to fill points) and go for up to a 6 point solo, but I can't think of any that I own that feel useful here. The idea is to use the Destroyer for triggering Overrun or softening up targets. He'll probably get Sentry and try to put random shots into infantry, either that or maybe Strakhov will use Sentry just to toss out clouds. Torch will spend the game using Sprint and Overrun to try to pick off weaker targets and dodge back to safety. Nyss Hunters will probably get Stealth and harass targets from forests. I might hold the Doom Reavers back until the lines close, though in theory I should probably be using Strakhov's feat and Apparition to get the alpha with them? FYI the themeless list I'm planning to run first is: conflictchamber.com/?c3200O7c7p8Cnj6i8I7375Khador [Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Destroyer [13] - Torch [17] - Greylord Adjunct [3] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Croe's Cutthroats (max) [16] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [16] Similar plan for the battlegroup, using hit-and-run tactics with Torch. I plan on putting Stealth on the Risen unit and keeping the Nyss Hunters in cover; this way there's no easy targets to hit and Alexia can stock up on Risen for a fully-loaded late-game charge. The lack of Koldun Lord hurts (and also means I need to be more careful with my Adjunct), but I can't see anything that I'm willing to drop for him.
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Post by leotherat on Dec 27, 2021 12:17:48 GMT
If you want to drop the mechanics then I would suggest Eiryss1. She threatens a lot of characters with her ability to remove focus/fury or you can use her to put 3 points into a model with no roll. She also keeps your sub-theme of being hard to hit.
For 4 points you may want to consider Eliminators. They can pack a punch and under Strakhov's feat have a threat range of 14.5". They're also partisans so they're still friendly faction for any effects you have available to you.
You may also want to consider Ternions. They give your Doomreavers recursion and/or concealment. Plus they'd be free (in that they'd be your most expensive unit that can be requisitioned. You would need to pay 4 points for your Forge Seer.)
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2021 13:02:36 GMT
If you want to drop the mechanics then I would suggest Eiryss1. She threatens a lot of characters with her ability to remove focus/fury or you can use her to put 3 points into a model with no roll. She also keeps your sub-theme of being hard to hit. For 4 points you may want to consider Eliminators. They can pack a punch and under Strakhov's feat have a threat range of 14.5". They're also partisans so they're still friendly faction for any effects you have available to you. You may also want to consider Ternions. They give your Doomreavers recursion and/or concealment. Plus they'd be free (in that they'd be your most expensive unit that can be requisitioned. You would need to pay 4 points for your Forge Seer.) I could probably proxy something for Eiryss1 I suppose. I was thinking about Eliminators, but they are a unit rather than a solo, so I believe I wouldn't be able to take them AND the Nyss Hunters? I was thinking about dropping Butcher4 and the mechanics, and maybe the Merc solo, to put another jack on Strak or on the Forgeseer. I don't see much point in putting anything on the Forgeseer, but I guess a Juggernaut on Strakhov wouldn't hurt; his battlegroup tops out at P+S 17 right now, which is not a number that I like very much. OR keep the Merc solo and put a Rager on Strakhov? Nothing wrong with having a shield-guard hanging about, and with 3 melee initials he's not the worst "backup assassin".
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2021 15:01:31 GMT
Just curious. Why are you using Nyss plus Valachev instead of two more units of Doom Reavers?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2021 15:24:24 GMT
Just curious. Why are you using Nyss plus Valachev instead of two more units of Doom Reavers? To answer your question, here's a quote I once read online: here's an attempt at a 50 point theme list that only uses models I actually own I mean, I call them Doomreavers, they're actually some random (and slightly underscale for WMH) Viking models that I kitbashed with some Fellblades. The Doomreaver aesthetic just never really grabbed me. Still counts though right? Themes are kinda hard on me since I really don't like buying/assembling/painting more than one of the same unit. I think the Winter Guard theme might end up being the best for me, as I can actually run up to three different full-sized Khador units. Of course I only own one of those units (AKs), and they've been sitting around unassembled for like a year now... what can I say, Merc units have so much character (literally: I run Alexia, Cylena, and Croe). Well, maybe I'll get my AKs assembled in 2022. If my friend's attention doesn't wander from Warmachine and leave me scrambling to assemble models for a completely different game again...
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2021 16:46:16 GMT
Just curious. Why are you using Nyss plus Valachev instead of two more units of Doom Reavers? To answer your question, here's a quote I once read online: here's an attempt at a 50 point theme list that only uses models I actually own I mean, I call them Doomreavers, they're actually some random (and slightly underscale for WMH) Viking models that I kitbashed with some Fellblades. The Doomreaver aesthetic just never really grabbed me. Still counts though right? Themes are kinda hard on me since I really don't like buying/assembling/painting more than one of the same unit. I think the Winter Guard theme might end up being the best for me, as I can actually run up to three different full-sized Khador units. Of course I only own one of those units (AKs), and they've been sitting around unassembled for like a year now... what can I say, Merc units have so much character (literally: I run Alexia, Cylena, and Croe). Well, maybe I'll get my AKs assembled in 2022. If my friend's attention doesn't wander from Warmachine and leave me scrambling to assemble models for a completely different game again... Well, see, the catch is, I don't know what you own. :-P
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Post by leotherat on Dec 27, 2021 16:53:18 GMT
IMHO one of the best jacks for a Forge Seer to marshal is a Destroyer. With it's indirect fire it's able to bypass frontline troops for the more vulnerable support models. The Forge Seer gives it's weapons the magical and blessed features and if you need to your adjunct can add in the eyeless sight ability. Have the Forge Seer empower the Destroyer and you have a boosted to hit roll that is good against DEF 14 add in aiming and you're good vs DEF 16 (plus you gain +2 to your damage roll as well).
Another jack to look at is a Decimator, especially vs Menoth, with the blessed and magical abilities you can knock down 2 jacks a round even if the targets are under the protection chant.
You are correct that the eliminators are a unit. I forgot that you had Cylena in your list already. You could replace her with a unit of Assassins with CA and save some points while still having a good melee threat unit.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2021 17:17:14 GMT
IMHO one of the best jacks for a Forge Seer to marshal is a Destroyer. With it's indirect fire it's able to bypass frontline troops for the more vulnerable support models. The Forge Seer gives it's weapons the magical and blessed features and if you need to your adjunct can add in the eyeless sight ability. Have the Forge Seer empower the Destroyer and you have a boosted to hit roll that is good against DEF 14 add in aiming and you're good vs DEF 16 (plus you gain +2 to your damage roll as well). Another jack to look at is a Decimator, especially vs Menoth, with the blessed and magical abilities you can knock down 2 jacks a round even if the targets are under the protection chant. I've run Decimators on Forgeseers before, and the idea of another shooting jack to help soften targets up for the Torch yoyo is appealing, but I have a hard time taking jacks out of Strakhov's battlegroup. Do you think magical blessed weapons are worth more here than the option of full focus, free charges on Feat turn, and the ability to benefit from or trigger Overrun?
You are correct that the eliminators are a unit. I forgot that you had Cylena in your list already. You could replace her with a unit of Assassins with CA and save some points while still having a good melee threat unit. I don't have the Kayazy Assassins, but I can see how they would be a better choice for Strakhov than the Nyss Hunters. Still, I like the idea of "repo 3" Pathfinder Hunter CRA Stealth models too. And occasionally they do work in melee too. I could of course replace them with them with the Cutthroats and leave out Valachev, but I'm losing out on melee and CRA. I'm leaning towards the Juggernaut idea right now, but it'll be over a week a the earliest before I run this list (if I ever do at all), so I have time to mull it over.
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Post by Havock on Dec 27, 2021 18:03:01 GMT
Kayazy Eliminators are great with Strakhov; They go stupidly fast with his feat and they are cheap.
Just plonk in an extra Juggernaut in your Battlegroup. If you have Fenris he, again, works great with Strakhov as it's just a cruise missile at that point.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2021 18:38:07 GMT
conflictchamber.com/?c3200O_-1S7c7pkW8Cnj7m8h758Inf89Khador [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Destroyer [13] - Juggernaut [13] - Torch [17] - Greylord Adjunct [0(3)] Kell Bailoch [3] Koldun Lord [3] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [16] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Ok, swapped the Forgeseer, Butcher4, and Mechanics for a Juggernaut, and Kell Bailoch for long-range magical weapons for softening up models. I could swap Kell for a Forgeseer. Or min mechanics with UA, but I think mechanics are the least useful. Of course, losing the Forgeseer means losing TWO Empowers, so.. I dunno, Forgeseer or Kell?
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Post by Havock on Dec 27, 2021 23:19:50 GMT
I would consider dropping the Nyss for Elims instead, that ought to give you enough points for an extra juggernaut.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 28, 2021 7:41:13 GMT
I would consider dropping the Nyss for Elims instead, that ought to give you enough points for an extra juggernaut. I don't really like the idea of running that infantry-light. I don't think Strakhov runs large battlegroups well; he doesn't have any focus multipliers or damage buffs or anything. I feel he wants two or three good jacks, of which at least one is a shooty jack that doesn't ask for much focus. So he can load up and send in at most two melee jacks (which is what I've got in the current list). Having lots of Empower can change that slightly, but I'd rather have more infantry to do work like clearing charge lanes than just have lots of support. Also I think quality ranged shooting can help compensate for the lack of damage buffs by softening up hard targets, which is something Kell and Nyss can provide. I'd love a Widowmaker Marksman - fantastic model for Strakhov - but hey, themes.
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Post by Havock on Dec 28, 2021 9:06:03 GMT
Thing is, you don't even have a large battlegroup in this case; three jacks is very average in mk3. Don't forget that between resourceful, powerup and empower, you can fuel everything just fine.
Alternatively; take a Devastator; it can both do some scenario work and be another and excellent overrun trigger.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 28, 2021 11:22:30 GMT
Thing is, you don't even have a large battlegroup in this case; three jacks is very average in mk3. Don't forget that between resourceful, powerup and empower, you can fuel everything just fine. Yes, three jacks is average, and that's just fine for me in a Strakhov list - especially at 50 points. If I drop my Nyss Hunters for a fourth warjack and a pair of Eliminators, at that point I basically have only 8 infantry models who are melee-only; the two Stealthy eliminators are probably fine but I don't know that six Doomreavers without any real defensive tech will get much done if my opponent has just about any anti-infantry shooting. Sure, maybe I can get lucky and Apparate out from behind a forest, or maybe my opponent will present me his army in such a way that I can burn the feat and throw ALL my models forward productively, but... maybe not. Alternatively; take a Devastator; it can both do some scenario work and be another and excellent overrun trigger. Interesting idea. I don't remember, does Rain of Death trigger Overrun?
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Post by leotherat on Dec 28, 2021 11:55:46 GMT
Overrun triggers after an attack. Rain of Death is a *Attack so it works for overrun.
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