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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 12:44:59 GMT
I was looking at his comments on the GC and he mentioned that he sends guys out in front of it after it Repositions away in order to soak up retaliation. Then hes outright not making any sense because this is supposed to be a tank in role. A SHOCKtrooper. What worth is a shocktrooper I have to protect? This was a similar tactic the Soviets used in the World Wars with their tanks (using soldiers as a meat shield for tanks). Citation Please?
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 4, 2017 13:35:53 GMT
I was looking at his comments on the GC and he mentioned that he sends guys out in front of it after it Repositions away in order to soak up retaliation. Then hes outright not making any sense because this is supposed to be a tank in role. A SHOCKtrooper. What worth is a shocktrooper I have to protect? This was a similar tactic the Soviets used in the World Wars with their tanks (using soldiers as a meat shield for tanks). Citation Please? Ours is not to question Soles, merely to try and interpret his words. Citation: my history class 20 years ago. Save
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 13:40:46 GMT
Citation: my history class 20 years ago. Err, Soviet Tanks had people on them to RIDE on the Tanks (Named "The Descenders" for descending off tanks). Not because Human Flesh is better at deflecting ammo or explosion then thick steel is. Not being offended or anything. I just mean that none of Soles Strategies make any sense at all. If its keeping up with the army, then its slowing down considerably. It has to be VERY slow, in order for it too be in range for the units to run up and protect it when it repositions, and why wouldn't you use any of the units guns to kill stuff at that point?
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 4, 2017 13:51:30 GMT
Citation: my history class 20 years ago. Err, Soviet Tanks had people on them to RIDE on the Tanks (Named "The Descenders" for descending off tanks). Not because Human Flesh is better at deflecting ammo or explosion then thick steel is. Not being offended or anything. I just mean that none of Soles Strategies make any sense at all. If its keeping up with the army, then its slowing down considerably. It has to be VERY slow, in order for it too be in range for the units to run up and protect it when it repositions, and why wouldn't you use any of the units guns to kill stuff at that point? I dunno. He responded with "well, that's what works for me, figure out your own tactics" which is basically admitting it doesn't work for its intended purpose and he has to work around it. Save
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Post by Netherby on May 4, 2017 15:23:02 GMT
Well, it went from Mediocre Shooting that could work with some casters to why did we bother putting those guns on it any way?
And this after all the feed back in week 1 was that it needed better shooting...
How are you even supposed to play test a model that stinks this much? There is no list I can put it in that gives me any reason to use it...
---- Oh and for those interested, Russians never used infantry to shield tanks. Early in the war they used tanks almost exclusively in fixed defensive positions. Later, once the German advances had been halted and tank production had caught up they used massed tank formations in frontal assaults to penetrate enemy lines. Infantry would then advance up behind the tanks and dig in.
In the very late stages of the war the Russians started mounting infantry on the tanks so that they could keep up with the deep assaults they were making past the enemy lines. The Germans were in disarray at this point and the Russians didn't have any other way of moving troops quickly in battle.
So if the GC was supposed to be some Russian theme tank, then Winter Guard should be able to ride on it or something.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on May 4, 2017 16:05:58 GMT
Oh, I would like to discuss the russian-tank-infantry topic - is there an offtopic place for that? ))) Otherwise I agree with the whining above. While shooting was ever effective on GC under Vladimirs or Sorcha1. Now it is almost completely irrelevant. On the other hand the general direction is fine with me: make it a fighting platform - not shooting. As long as the mount auto-knocksdown I consider the cannons as additional melee attacks for a total of 4 when you can impact-charge. GC's raw charge treat range is stil more than typical for our jacks. Add boundless charge and it is already disturbing for our opposition. So in line with PP strategy i can propose the following small adjustments: 1) Melee range 1" (also on impacts) 2) Option to shoot cannons at the start of activation (clear jamming stuff) - then charge
I'm not on CID forums, but would be happy if someone states it there. Thanks,
Andrey
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on May 4, 2017 16:32:00 GMT
zeffid I very much like your 2 ideas. Being able to shoot at stuff before moving would indeed help to clear things up for it. I think it should also have high explosive so that if it is going to scatter on infantry that is trying to block it, that at least it has a good chance of damaging it.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 17:04:39 GMT
So Bushwhack and 1 melee? I'd be fine with that.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 17:21:29 GMT
So Bushwhack and 1 melee? I'd be fine with that. Actually it would need to be a more powerful Bushwack, as it only allows a normal movement.
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Post by Ozvelpoon on May 4, 2017 17:36:35 GMT
I believe that rules would be the equivalent of the old Assault and Battery rule on the Assault Commandos?
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Post by Voodoogk on May 4, 2017 18:23:38 GMT
Heh.. funny I was thinking the same thing, if it had assault and battery that thing might be good with rules as is otherwise. shoot itself clean then mess up some other stuff. This is how I want to play the thing so I wouldn't mind that at all. Would make it a bull in a china shop, fun and do what they want it to do as well.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 18:28:27 GMT
Actually, the closest thing this edition would be Hog Wild on Farrow Brigands I think.
"Affected models can make one basic ranged attack this activation before this unit makes its Normal Movement. After their Normal Movement, models in this unit can use their Combat Actions to make only melee attacks this activation.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on May 4, 2017 18:31:44 GMT
Does that prevent charge attacks?
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Post by welshhoppo on May 4, 2017 18:32:31 GMT
I believe that rules would be the equivalent of the old Assault and Battery rule on the Assault Commandos? Hutchuck has this. He can make an attack and then charge something. I can't remember what it is called though.
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Post by Cryptix on May 4, 2017 18:33:27 GMT
I believe that rules would be the equivalent of the old Assault and Battery rule on the Assault Commandos? Hutchuck has this. He can make an attack and then charge something. I can't remember what it is called though. Wild Shot. It's basically Assault except it doesn't have to target the charge target and before movement.
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