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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 3, 2017 23:05:05 GMT
From Pagani
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 3, 2017 23:08:45 GMT
Honestly that's the dullest role imaginable. Literally be a brick, stand there, and not die. I would honestly prefer taking 2 Mad Dogs to this.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 3, 2017 23:13:05 GMT
PPs ways are mysterious and unknowable. But I'm definitly in the camp of the GC being poop now.
Funnily enough, I was finding 12" to be too short when I played it a few days ago. But then Issyria makes things charge way too far.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 3, 2017 23:17:33 GMT
PPs ways are mysterious and unknowable. Nah pretty knowable: They have an idea in their head and everybody stick to it. Lord....Just....I fully expect some changes in Next week after EVERYBODY beats down on the GC, but what kind of hecking role do PP expect it to do in melee? Im just flabberghasted that the one role it could at least do is gone!
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Post by auraco on May 4, 2017 0:55:35 GMT
I get the direction they want to go, they just need to get rid of the now way too expansive gun tax and make it cheaper. I would consider it if it were cheaper, but now as it stands it's a very expansive short ranged thing that doesn't know what it wants to do.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 1:04:38 GMT
I get the direction they want to go, they just need to get rid of the now way too expansive gun tax and make it cheaper. I would consider it if it were cheaper, but now as it stands it's a very expansive short ranged thing that doesn't know what it wants to do. I dunno. I find myself than finding it just fills the exact same role as so much of our Other stuff. For sure it needs a Major Points downgrade, and a better revision of what it wants to do...But, I just don't think Khador needs anymore Tanks. I mean we even have a Tank CASTER that makes our Jacks do so much of the same stuff that it does already. And the potential for some Inaccurate Difficult terrain lobbying just isn't exciting me. Its not a system seller. More like a Bonus at best.
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Post by jonnyboy on May 4, 2017 2:10:16 GMT
Someone might have already suggested this (I haven't made it through the whole thread) but I had a cool idea for the battle wagon.
I was thinking something similar to the seraph from legion. Maybe the battle wagon is able to "carry" our infantry up the field. Giving them a 2" movement as the wagon passes by or over warrior models. I think it sounds neat thematically, as infantry grab onto the side for a quick boost as it trundles towards the enemy.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 2:13:44 GMT
I was thinking something similar to the seraph from legion. Maybe the battle wagon is able to "carry" our infantry up the field. Giving them a 2" movement as the wagon passes by or over warrior models. I think it sounds neat thematically, as infantry grab onto the side for a quick boost as it trundles towards the enemy. Thats a neat idea, but thats not what they want it to do. They want....I dunno. It feels all over the place and confused for me. Soles likes it, but he says how much it works great when you support it with tons of points of infatry, at which point I question why am I bringing something that can't do anything on its own, requires going slower, and still needs support of its own to provide not so impressive attacks on its own.
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Post by khador247 on May 4, 2017 3:41:11 GMT
So first they add boxes and give it no new rules. Then they reduce the range of the guns from 12" to 8" and take away the ability to trample and shoot. It gets Line Breaker. What is Line Breaker?
I hope these don't end up being the final rules because this sounds pretty awful.
As for Soles I wish he'd just leave at this point. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing anymore.
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Post by Swampmist on May 4, 2017 3:56:26 GMT
So first they add boxes and give it no new rules. Then they reduce the range of the guns from 12" to 8" and take away the ability to trample and shoot. It gets Line Breaker. What is Line Breaker? I hope these don't end up being the final rules because this sounds pretty awful. As for Soles I wish he'd just leave at this point. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing anymore. yo hey what have I said about personal attacks against pps members no bad we have PPS_Strawman for a reason
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 4, 2017 4:04:04 GMT
And it finally hit me:
What the heck is a Carriage Trying to RAM people? Its such a confused model because it's conceptually confused.
Like can anybody imagine how this thing even does what it does? So it builds up momentum....to slam you with horses (And hopefully not knock over the carriage), then shoot at you point blank from the carriage? Then reposition (How. The carriage would severly restrict you)
Historical Gun carriages where used for repositioning of guns, troops and ammo....Not trying to run over your target with a horse.
The Meat thresher looks like a tank. It comically lacks threads, and has a comical wheel at the back, but it looks like a grissly person crushing tank with a turret ontop.
Carriages just where not meant for melee combat.
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Post by macdaddy on May 4, 2017 5:01:19 GMT
Honestly they are limiting themselves too much by wanting it to be like the troll equivalent.
Give it an ability to be a support battle engine. Let it give Pathfinder to a unit near it (represent it trampling rough terrain out if the way) and maybey a reload mechanics for the WG. Make it what a gun carriage was historically a big artillery truck with ammo pulled by horses. Maybey instead of making rough terrain the guns give FF models pathfinder while in the AOE that is left by the mortar shells.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 4, 2017 6:55:23 GMT
Pretty (very) disappointed by the changes this week. I thought they initially said they made no real changes because the gun carriage was largely working as intended? Week 2 doesn't seem to agree with that.
A casual reduction in threat range of 7" for some reason (to rub it in, the pdf says in the notes that the range is reduced to 10", not 8"), removal of the trample rule which actually kept it mobile when fighting infantry (and made it and the wagon unique) and giving it a rule to get a boosted impact attack against (realistically) one model, once a game?
Granted, our battle engine was one of the best before the CID so we couldn't really expect much more than some extra boxes. I think it's now gone from one of the best to one of the worst.
Here's hoping week 3 reverses these changes :/
Cheers, Dave
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 4, 2017 9:21:19 GMT
As for Soles I wish he'd just leave at this point. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing anymore. Myself and others have commented several times that it feels like we play a different game to the devs and I think Soles is the reason. I was looking at his comments on the GC and he mentioned that he sends guys out in front of it after it Repositions away in order to soak up retaliation. This was a similar tactic the Soviets used in the World Wars with their tanks (using soldiers as a meat shield for tanks). Soles is probably developing based on his themeatic vision (an unstoppable steamroller ploughing through no mans land making explosions) of the model but ignoring the competitive side of things and the vision of the model the players have (mobile artillary that can smoosh things in a pinch)
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 4, 2017 12:26:18 GMT
I would just take clam if gun stays 8". I don't know about how they envision it thematically, but I doubt it makes sense outside of their thematical bubble. Everyone loves long range artillery, soviet or no.
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