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Post by macdaddy on Apr 27, 2017 19:30:57 GMT
I kind of wish the Fulcrum could choose a single gun to use for an activation. One of each makes it difficult to ever make full use of it. But then buying up to a 3rd lightning shot or fireball (while sacrificing the other shot types) might be a little to specialized for it's swiss army knife design. I like the 3 guns all the time. Rat 6 means its feasible to not have to boost to hit certain targets and 3 Fury is enough to at least boost all 3 guns in some way. We also have access to casters and the moonhound which increases its already good rat to 8 or more (tannith is very promising) Im very pleased as a whole If I can maybe somehow convince PP to let it have 5 fury per activation....muwahaha
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Apr 27, 2017 20:11:09 GMT
On the Swiss Army knife comment - I'm pretty bummed about losing the aoe 4 smoke. I only ran it w woldwrath a couple times but having that blocking line of sight next to the 5 inch pow 10 aoe was really cool for control.
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Post by radamanthys on Apr 28, 2017 17:54:56 GMT
Some test...
War Room Army
Circle Orboros - Baldur1 75p.
Theme: No Theme Selected 74 / 75 Army
Fuel Cache - Steamroller Objective
Baldur the Stonecleaver - WB: +31 - Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Feral Warpwolf - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9
Celestial Fulcrum - PC: 19
Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 4
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
---
GENERATED : 04/28/2017 19:50:38 BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Apr 28, 2017 19:01:16 GMT
On the list above - it really seems like the cf will get a ton from bones theme. 2" deployment and plenty of constructs to leach from seem like a big deal. That being said, I may just be obsessed w these theme lists.
My thought / Baldur2 (bones) -woldwrath -megalith -woldwyrd x2 Celestial fulcrum Bcw x2 (both free) Shaper (free) Sentry stone x2
Shoots pretty well w geomancy and still has two beat sticks with 2" extra charges. I forgot Baldur let's them charge for free so maybe just substitute 1 or both wayfarers for stoneshapers Bc u still get a magic 7 spray.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 28, 2017 20:05:08 GMT
On the list above - it really seems like the cf will get a ton from bones theme. 2" deployment and plenty of constructs to leach from seem like a big deal. That being said, I may just be obsessed w these theme lists. My thought / Baldur2 (bones) -woldwrath -megalith -woldwyrd x2 Celestial fulcrum Bcw x2 (both free) Shaper (free) Sentry stone x2 Shoots pretty well w geomancy and still has two beat sticks with 2" extra charges. I forgot Baldur let's them charge for free so maybe just substitute 1 or both wayfarers for stoneshapers Bc u still get a magic 7 spray. I think in general the more I play with Bones of Orboros the more I love it. I still wish the healing benefit was D3 though. I think in general making blackclads MA 8 for sprays and hunters mark is just really good. Combined with a WW and you are getting really accurate spell slinging. I have found the fulcrum benefit with mohsar to make him more efficient on fury being Fury 9 for casting and Rat 7 for sprays really makes a difference on needing to boost or not.
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Post by radamanthys on Apr 30, 2017 14:09:03 GMT
Baldur the Stonecleaver - WB: +31 - Woldwrath - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31) - Megalith - PC: 20 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9 - Woldwyrd - PC: 9
Celestial Fulcrum - PC: 19
Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Blackclad Stoneshaper - PC: 0 Blackclad Stoneshaper - PC: 0
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
THEME: The Bones of Orboros ---
2points = gallows grove but i think in this list gallows its a not necessary
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Post by fossilfinder on Apr 30, 2017 23:40:59 GMT
People have been worried about the Single Fulcrum or Double Fulcrum gunlines, so I whipped up some too extreme examples to stress test the concept under Morv2. The logic behind selecting Morv2 is that she has Fog of War which can help protect the Wyrds from ranged reprisal and Scales of Fate helps correct for poor dice rolls on the numerous shots you get. So far I've come up with three versions to try and see if the worries regarding ease of fury management are justified.
Double Fulcrum: Circle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Morvahna 2) Morvahna the Dawnshadow [+27] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
Single Fulcrum All the Wyrds: Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Morvahna 2) Morvahna the Dawnshadow [+27] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
Single Fulcrum with a Heavy Anchor: Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Morvahna 2) Morvahna the Dawnshadow [+27] - Wold Guardian [17] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
Personally I don't think these lists are even particularly strong when compared with other options that are available. On the other hand, they are the illogical extreme that I could come up with to see if the Fulcrum + Wyrd Gunline combination is too efficient. I'm curious what you all think.
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Post by macdaddy on May 1, 2017 3:23:19 GMT
I think a better person to run wyrd Spam is going to be Kaya3, Repo, Fog of War, Soothing Song, and a feat that helps the Wyrds stay alive and can get them disengaged or give them janky threat vectors. With Morv you are just ignoring too much on her card (particularly her feat) which bothers me a lot.
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Post by fossilfinder on May 1, 2017 4:01:20 GMT
That is fair. I was simply thinking that Scales of Fate and Fog of War might be worth it since it corrects for bad roles. Kaya3 is worth considering.
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Post by ispyypsi on May 1, 2017 4:58:07 GMT
Song doesn't help the wolds sadly. I like the morv2 for scales idea. Tanith or Mohsar are both worth looking at. Mostly for armor reduction. I thought about wurmwood but he doesn't get any souls to play with.
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Post by fossilfinder on May 1, 2017 5:06:43 GMT
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points
(Kaya 3) Kaya the Wildheart [+27] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Feralgeist [2] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Celestial Fulcrum [19] or
Circle Army - 74 / 75 points
(Kaya 3) Kaya the Wildheart [+27] - Argus Moonhound [6] - Argus Moonhound [6] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
Might be worth a look.
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Post by fossilfinder on May 1, 2017 5:20:49 GMT
Bradigus might not be bad conceptually for this either
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros
(Thorle 1) Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver [+27] - Woldwarden [16] - Woldwarden [16] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3] Celestial Fulcrum [19]
The watchers have handy utility vs other gunlines and with their gun but can obviously be subbed out for more Wyrds. Bradigus' feat is actually quite helpful to this list either to get an effectively free turn of aim-bonus shooting or to back up for another round of shots. Worth trying out.
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Post by streetpizza on May 1, 2017 14:17:14 GMT
I only own two wyrds with not intent of chasing the next spam fad (stares at my 6 watchers and 6 scarsfells ... *sigh*). With that in mind I'd probably run Brad as follows: conflictchamber.com/#b81b_-0pex5m4P4F4F4F4H4Hg4g4g45f5yaGCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Thorle 1) Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver [+27] - Wold Guardian [17] - Woldwarden [16] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I prefer seeing a guardian in there as he'll help protect Brad's big fat but from a single high pow shot which really helps him survive vs gunlines. The guardian also anchors the list for end game. I also like having one additional watcher as they are your main source of early synergy bumps and if you start to loose them then the list's potential starts to drop off pretty dramatically. I'm able to pull the extra point by dropping on set of stones and adding the keeper . The presence of the fulcrum and shapers let you get away with this since they really help out with the fury control issue during the shooting phase of the engagement. Gotta say I just don't see the fulcrum with Kaya3 though. Kaya does zilch for wyrds beyond a +2 def vs gun lines that don't ignore concealment. They in return do nothing for her so most of her kit is simply wasted. There are much better K3 builds out there and bones of orboros just doesn't work with her.
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Post by fossilfinder on May 1, 2017 21:15:47 GMT
I only own two wyrds with not intent of chasing the next spam fad (stares at my 6 watchers and 6 scarsfells ... *sigh*). With that in mind I'd probably run Brad as follows: conflictchamber.com/#b81b_-0pex5m4P4F4F4F4H4Hg4g4g45f5yaGCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Thorle 1) Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver [+27] - Wold Guardian [17] - Woldwarden [16] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwatcher [9] - Woldwyrd [9] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Celestial Fulcrum [19] I prefer seeing a guardian in there as he'll help protect Brad's big fat but from a single high pow shot which really helps him survive vs gunlines. The guardian also anchors the list for end game. I also like having one additional watcher as they are your main source of early synergy bumps and if you start to loose them then the list's potential starts to drop off pretty dramatically. I'm able to pull the extra point by dropping on set of stones and adding the keeper . The presence of the fulcrum and shapers let you get away with this since they really help out with the fury control issue during the shooting phase of the engagement. Gotta say I just don't see the fulcrum with Kaya3 though. Kaya does zilch for wyrds beyond a +2 def vs gun lines that don't ignore concealment. They in return do nothing for her so most of her kit is simply wasted. There are much better K3 builds out there and bones of orboros just doesn't work with her. One of the nice things about Woldwatchers and Woldwyrds in or out of theme is that they are the same price so they can be swapped out pretty interchangeably depending on personal purchases, list matchups, etc. (this makes something like a Bradigus list a bit more fluid if he ever gets put on ADR as well, in my opinion). A healthy mix of both is probably best. The 2 Woldwardens in my proposed Bradigus list were partially selected to put down forests to block LOS to Brad most turns entirely and also as more Synergy bodies that boast a utility gun, but there is merit to a Wold Guardian in that role. The discussion about Kaya3 was the combination of Reposition:3 (which is strong on ranged pieces), Synergy if needed (which is at least some of the draw for Bradigus in the first place), Fog of War (which can help vs other gunlines), and her feat to unjam your shooting pieces or skoot them around for an extra turn of uninterrupted shooting, in theory. I'm not arguing that it's the best list for her but that was the reasoning behind it.
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Post by macdaddy on May 3, 2017 22:20:42 GMT
Fulcrum made it through without any changes so far! Woohoo!
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