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Post by sand20go on Jun 8, 2020 19:58:53 GMT
I am really of 2 minds when it comes to wartable. I love warmachine and this seems like such an improvement over vassal and makes the game much more playable on-line and with friends.
But boy - I worry about copyright infringement and how this hurts PP's business model. Will there be people that just play it on-line? Why college that second (or third) army when you can play with this one virtually?
How are other people thinking about this?
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 8, 2020 22:05:01 GMT
That depends a lot, I think, on whether you are in WarmaHordes for the game, the hobby, or both.
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Post by fanbloodytastic on Jun 8, 2020 23:47:29 GMT
I say support it.
People can already do something very similar by just proxying models (or vassal) and It’ll never fully replace playing in person.
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Post by beardmonk on Jun 9, 2020 9:45:38 GMT
from a personal PoV i have no interest in playing on vassal or Wartable. Most of my work requires me to spend a lot of time on a computer and one of the reason why im into wargaming is the physical and social aspect of it. I love painting, collecting and when i can, playing games in our small group. However you make an interesting point about the player base.
Im convinced that many WM/H players would actually just play with tokens with "warjack" written on them if that was acceptable. It means they can hop on the latest meta list or answer with no outlay and keep their edge.
It possible that Wartable may provide many people with an excuse to play the game without the expense of investing in PP products, collecting, building and painting. Or it could be a great tool for you t try out new models and list before purchasing the models.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 9, 2020 11:52:17 GMT
It's up to you. You don't pay for it, so boycotting it isn't going to change anything, and people could already "skip" playing with actual physical models through Vassal. If you see value in being able to play without having to get together with a physical person, by all means you should give it a try. If you would rather continue to play in person, then do so.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 12, 2020 18:32:50 GMT
As a player, I wouldn't be worried about copyright infringement or IP ethics on Wartable. First, it isn't so much a new issue as Vassal has been around for years, as have other fan-made resources like Warmachine University, Conflict Chamber, etc.
I don't think there will be a significant number of people who will only play Warmachine online and won't buy models or play in person. The only people who are going to be into Wartable are going to be people who already play Warmachine but can't do it in person for whatever reason. For Warmachine players, interfaces like Wartable and Vassal are pretty much always going to be a distant second to actually playing Warmachine. For people who just want a tactically interesting game that they can play on their computer, they going to play League of Legends or some other strategy game that was designed from the ground up as a PC game, because that is always going to be a better experience than trying to play a miniatures game or a board game through a computer interface.
Even if people are using Wartable to try out new armies, that's not really any different from playing in person and using proxies, which is fairly common.
Also, if PP considered it to be an infringement on their IP and a threat to their business model, we would have heard about it by now from them (or their lawyers). And if they saw a serious opportunity for growth in playing Warmachine online, we might see things like licensing, collaboration, and official modules in the future - like we see with Roll20 and D&D.
In fact, if I were to go out on a limb, I would say that PP is probably happy that Wartable came out during the current unpleasantness, as it makes it a lot easier for people who aren't so much into hobby and lore to continually engage with the game and their products. It's a lot easier for a company to get people to continue playing the game and buying their products if they have been continually engaged than it is to convince lapsed gamers and customers to pick it up again.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Jun 14, 2020 7:51:55 GMT
Since all rules are free I see no real problem. Worst case you use base sized markers and tokens, then there would be no infridgment at all.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jun 14, 2020 12:13:11 GMT
I don't think that wartable will damage PP's business model. If anything, I think it's doing them a favor by keeping interest in the game until people can play again. I wouldn't worry about it.
If it gets to a point where there are virtual WFW qualifiers and such, then maybe that becomes a different question, but I fail to see how that is going to happen.
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Post by Havock on Jun 14, 2020 16:08:53 GMT
It also allows you to casually play people you'd otherwise need to travel around for, or play the game despite pesky COVID lockdowns.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 14, 2020 16:30:25 GMT
But then the question comes to support one program over another, such as WarTable vs Vassal vs Tabletop Simulator.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jun 19, 2020 13:38:06 GMT
Support it if you want to. If you don't want to, for whatever reason, don't.
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Post by anderfreak on Jun 23, 2020 17:36:13 GMT
But then the question comes to support one program over another, such as WarTable vs Vassal vs Tabletop Simulator. My guess is that PP will end up officially endorsing one if it becomes a viable method to run no contact tournaments. Short of an official module, support whichever, my understanding is that WarTable and Vassal are entirely free and TTS is $20. So the lost investment for picking wrong is low impact on the playerbase.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 23, 2020 18:44:53 GMT
But then the question comes to support one program over another, such as WarTable vs Vassal vs Tabletop Simulator. My guess is that PP will end up officially endorsing one if it becomes a viable method to run no contact tournaments. Short of an official module, support whichever, my understanding is that WarTable and Vassal are entirely free and TTS is $20. So the lost investment for picking wrong is low impact on the playerbase. Support comes via use, not necessarily financial backing. As it is, the modules for Vassal and TTS themselves require someone to build and update them.
To be fair, if I were to get in to it, I would support whatever my group was planning to use so I would get a chance to play.
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Post by marxlives on Aug 13, 2020 18:47:17 GMT
I am really of 2 minds when it comes to wartable. I love warmachine and this seems like such an improvement over vassal and makes the game much more playable on-line and with friends. But boy - I worry about copyright infringement and how this hurts PP's business model. Will there be people that just play it on-line? Why college that second (or third) army when you can play with this one virtually? How are other people thinking about this? People who want to and can hobby will hobby and play. However, I think PP presence really started to shrink when they went copyright hammer on a lot of people. Sites like Forward Kommander were just instrumental to growing the scene. Ban hammering War Table would just reduce PP's presence and lets be real, compared to GW and FFG Star Wars license, PP presence is pretty low. There are people who have never tabletop wargamed and have heard of 40k and Star Wars. At PP's level, any sort of gatekeeping is harmful. All it does is just diminish their presence. There is a reason why the company went from the highlight of Penny Arcade pre-ban hammer and is probably on the same level with companies like Mantic post banhammer. If anything they need to open the gates and just allow games to go on a licensing spree with their IPs.
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