|
Post by dickovdk on Dec 29, 2019 20:10:01 GMT
The update seems good but still I don't think that the lights will have a place in Trollbloods. Mauler is still the cheapest tax as well, in the faction that already have a tax unit. Maybe the Slag actually have a place but not due to the DU but because so many Constructs (Battle Engines) are used in the game and with Marked Target from solos and with a mauler hanging out in the back - the Slag can carry a punch at BEs (and maybe Immortals too)
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Dec 29, 2019 21:03:54 GMT
The update seems good but still I don't think that the lights will have a place in Trollbloods. Mauler is still the cheapest tax as well, in the faction that already have a tax unit. Maybe the Slag actually have a place but not due to the DU but because so many Constructs (Battle Engines) are used in the game and with Marked Target from solos and with a mauler hanging out in the back - the Slag can carry a punch at BEs (and maybe Immortals too) Two effective pow 16s vs construct isn't bad, with rage it's hitting as hard as a juggernaut or butcher. Would've liked it if the gun was turned into a spray or got an aoe, to put it in line with the pyre, but then it'd outclass it. Imagine if the animus had a range other than self. It's never gonna happen, but it'd be cool if trolls had access to cheaper animus bots.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin on Dec 29, 2019 22:40:30 GMT
After almost 2 weeks of list building with some test play I belive that PP kinda missed a mark on few things, and even though everythink that we got is clearly a buff, trolls won't see a tournament rise and competetive power play level rise. Unless somebody will come with sth that I coudn't which i wish for new year, will happen What is a missed mark from my POV - update doesn't change the way we play. We can now play without a Mouler, but with casters that have a heavy supporty for light(like pGrissel), but still really too much on heaving a Mauler tax, and Axer Tax. Kriel Company also lacks of a unit that can be put into a zone and won't dissapear to a stiff breeze. Also trolls suffer haevy in having a tough tax that meta can just ignore, unless playing a team tournament :_ Also why Scouts got a GV and skinner not is my question. Have plenty of new lists to play, dont think that any of them will change in any way meta.
|
|
|
Post by anoddman on Dec 30, 2019 4:28:55 GMT
After almost 2 weeks of list building with some test play I belive that PP kinda missed a mark on few things, and even though everythink that we got is clearly a buff, trolls won't see a tournament rise and competetive power play level rise. Unless somebody will come with sth that I coudn't which i wish for new year, will happen What is a missed mark from my POV - update doesn't change the way we play. We can now play without a Mouler, but with casters that have a heavy supporty for light(like pGrissel), but still really too much on heaving a Mauler tax, and Axer Tax. Kriel Company also lacks of a unit that can be put into a zone and won't dissapear to a stiff breeze. Also trolls suffer haevy in having a tough tax that meta can just ignore, unless playing a team tournament :_ Also why Scouts got a GV and skinner not is my question. Have plenty of new lists to play, dont think that any of them will change in any way meta. I really don't agree about the tax. Taking a Mauler is never a bad thing. You can kill pretty much anything in the game with it, and it buffs up your other beasts from the backline until it's ready to go in. And the only time I've taken in Axer in about two years is in Doomie3 beast bricks. Are our infantry really paying for tough? Really, the only infantry cost that still feels high right now are the Warders which are getting looked at in a Band of Heroes dynamic update right now. I'm still really hopeful for this update. Trolls have never really had access to this high accuracy shooting or healing denial outside of a few lists. Grissel2 has always been solid, and now she's even better. I've been looking at Grissel1 way more often than I used to. Our lights still need help and I don't think the Blitzer made it into a playable spot, but I think a solid chunk of our faction is pretty good. Once a balance update comes around for a couple egregious things still left in the game, we'll be on pretty even footing with everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin on Dec 30, 2019 7:37:21 GMT
Did I miss sth with BoH update :?: Dont own social media, and PP seems to like it as a information channel I also do not take axer, unless I have specific thing in mind, but it also made me play casters that have ways to speed up beast, cause the flat 9 inches thread range is funny Taking a Mauler is taxing - its not bout its melee prowless - its on the top end, and it's not even that expensive - it's more like our heavies are pillow fisted(unless named) that we need it - in MK2 we coud relly on light beast to do it, currenty not. I understand why PP changed it, just don't agree. Also since Oblivion errata, KC didn't have problems with hitting stuff. That's why I was so suprised for PP to go with Rat chagnes on few things. Since that update for 4 points we have casual +2, most of our casters have ways to improve it even more, so I thought that thats not a problem, and they will come up with sth else. It's more like problem of my perespective then maybe accual state of game,but we'll see But it's more like I thought that what Fay said in podcasts(cripped and the meta)- she wanted to make stone cheaper(less taxing) and work on things like Jarl(caster changes)that I had hoped will happen. 2Grim still seems like a joke compered to current shooting top dog. Don't let me started on 3Madrak. But she didn't promise ath, and maybe she coudn't push the changes she wanted Sad panda, not gonna jump the faction, just will test more Also - why skinner didnt get GV like his pals - and why the hell he is in BoH, which is the only theme that I cannot see him from the fluff reasos
|
|
|
Post by dickovdk on Dec 30, 2019 8:57:18 GMT
Kevin I completely agree with your assessment, trolls got buffed no doubt, but in a strange way. I feel like you do that the buffsdid not focus on why the trolls have basically been gone from the meta for 2+years now. Having said that I am not sure Trolls are the issue to be frank - I think its more that immortals and Tharns are just so powerful and playing the tune as trolls use to, which basically results in trolls just being meh compared.
Objectively Storm is a darn good theme, with very good models (Raiders, Bears, Rök, Fire Eaters). Band is our 2nd must have list to handle (oddly enough) tough. A rule deemed bad play experience going from Mk2->Mk3. Kriel bring "minion matchbox cars" and is hitting what ever we shoot at. Dozer is good, raiders, fire eaters and of course Sons all fine. That leaves Power of Dhunia, again I don't think the theme is bad. Might lack a unit or two but its more the SR2019 that make PoD unplayable.
And if I am just a bit correct in those perspectives, adding new models & correcting old won't help as the real problem lies outside the faction
Having said all that of course our lights are stupid in their current state. I would probably only look to Bouncer (animus&shieldguard) Slag (anti construct)
|
|
|
Post by Kevin on Dec 30, 2019 9:46:01 GMT
Basher is really good beast considering its point cost. We're still taking Mauler so base thread 9 with pow 17 and pathfinder for 7 point is really good value. In case of our elemental meta is more the problem then accually rules. Whats the point of taking low pow low range beast when mid armour with wounds exists in meta, and for single wound infantry killing we have plenty of other options. In case of immortal matchup we accually have some good tools, cause why would Skorne player play immortal into kolgrimma
|
|
|
Post by anoddman on Dec 30, 2019 18:17:51 GMT
Like Kevin said, Basher is great. So is the Ice Troll, Winter Troll, Bouncer, and I'd say probably the Slag (haven't actually put him on the table yet with the animus change). Then you have the Axer, Pyre Troll and Swamp Troll which are good with certain casters--I'd never take Borka without a Pyre. Swamp Troll is a favorite of Gunny and Calandra (Calandra can make them stupid difficult to hit and she likes their animus).
Really the only lights I don't reach for are the Impaler, Storm Troll and Night Troll. I understand why some people would take a Storm Troll in certain metas though, and the Impaler has a corner case use with someone like Madrak1 who can play a 3-light battlegroup. The Night Troll is just outshone by the Basher right now. It really needs to be DEF 14 and maybe have Pathfinder to find a home.
|
|
|
Post by emb on Dec 30, 2019 20:00:17 GMT
I don't see the change in the Slag animus as anything more than what was stated: it brings it in line with the pyre troll and gives you a reason to consider it over a Pyre without concern for buffing your caster's melee output. Otherwise the only real improvement from before the DU is that you have a damage buff that, unlike Rage, can be used with Rush. That's still not enough for me to take it over a min unit of Champs or SoB.
|
|
|
Post by anoddman on Dec 31, 2019 2:59:26 GMT
I don't see the change in the Slag animus as anything more than what was stated: it brings it in line with the pyre troll and gives you a reason to consider it over a Pyre without concern for buffing your caster's melee output. Otherwise the only real improvement from before the DU is that you have a damage buff that, unlike Rage, can be used with Rush. That's still not enough for me to take it over a min unit of Champs or SoB. I don’t think it’s competing with Champs or SoBs. It’s competing with other beast slots for the WB Points. A Bomber/Slag battlegroup fits Calandra’s WB Points nicely and doesn’t cut into points for units.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin on Dec 31, 2019 11:48:17 GMT
Never understood why would anyone take Pyre Troll NFE can fire themselves easly enough, and for plain +2 for caster its too expensive for my test. Slag Trolls are currently totally different then animus bot for casters. In KC with few casters ya can have easy +4/+6 to movment and then it can cast its animi. Few of these +2 from casters can be free charges so even better. I dont think it will overshadow mauler but with right tools it should shine. And 10 points missles aren't expensive and against constructs it will shine even more. Things like triple slags for pGrissel BG can work Can doesnt mean it will
|
|
skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
|
Post by skurkious on Dec 31, 2019 16:29:18 GMT
Like Kevin said, Basher is great. So is the Ice Troll, Winter Troll, Bouncer, and I'd say probably the Slag (haven't actually put him on the table yet with the animus change). Then you have the Axer, Pyre Troll and Swamp Troll which are good with certain casters--I'd never take Borka without a Pyre. Swamp Troll is a favorite of Gunny and Calandra (Calandra can make them stupid difficult to hit and she likes their animus). Really the only lights I don't reach for are the Impaler, Storm Troll and Night Troll. I understand why some people would take a Storm Troll in certain metas though, and the Impaler has a corner case use with someone like Madrak1 who can play a 3-light battlegroup. The Night Troll is just outshone by the Basher right now. It really needs to be DEF 14 and maybe have Pathfinder to find a home. I love Night Trolls. Stealth and eyeless sight are super rare in TB. The ability to charge for free and have 3 initials means that a buff like rage goes a long ways. The animus is corner-case but can be a great threat extender that people don't expect. Crit paralysis is a nice bonus when you get it.
|
|
|
Post by anoddman on Dec 31, 2019 19:12:47 GMT
Pyre Troll is bonkers good with Borka2. It can take care of lighting Fire Eaters on fire without losing out on a spray or accidentally rolling 11+ to kill. Then Borka can get up to POW 21 on his mace (16 on the mount) under stone after having been damaged with 5 Fury to kill something dead. It's the difference between Borka maybe killing a heavy and absolutely shredding a heavy with Fury to spare.
Weirdly, the only place I've liked Night Trolls is three of them with Madrak2. Warpath, Relentless Charge and Rage turn them into SPD 8 Pathfinder missiles. I just so very rarely find most of their abilities relevant, though I'll give you that free charges into Tharn are pretty helpful to give them enough Fury to animus.
|
|
|
Post by emb on Dec 31, 2019 19:42:59 GMT
I don't see the change in the Slag animus as anything more than what was stated: it brings it in line with the pyre troll and gives you a reason to consider it over a Pyre without concern for buffing your caster's melee output. Otherwise the only real improvement from before the DU is that you have a damage buff that, unlike Rage, can be used with Rush. That's still not enough for me to take it over a min unit of Champs or SoB. I don’t think it’s competing with Champs or SoBs. It’s competing with other beast slots for the WB Points. A Bomber/Slag battlegroup fits Calandra’s WB Points nicely and doesn’t cut into points for units. For sure, filling out WBP. Although even with Calandra, I'd rather have an Axer to extend the Bomber's threat. I'm more referring to the idea of the Slag as "anti-BE"-tech. Aside from Calandra (Befuddle), pGrim (Bait the Line), pGrissel (Boundless Charge), eMadrak (Warpath)*, maaaaybe Bearka (countercharge/the NK stone), and the Axer (Rush) there are no warbeast-specific threat extensions in the faction to help the Slag Troll get into melee. Like, I agree - he does work. Just that in my experience, he doesn't do enough work to justify including him. +2 damage/(possibly) -1 attack isn't enough to change that. *And I have a complaint about this! But I'll make a new thread.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin on Dec 31, 2019 20:15:53 GMT
Tank gives slag troll plane +2 inches
|
|