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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 29, 2017 23:35:12 GMT
Yeah, I guess quoting things that people say is ridiculous. No, stop being foolish and 'revering' things when you could be learning from them. Reverence misses the point entirely. Well then: Quotations from famous people rarely justofy anything, especially when misinterpreted or taken out of context. So much Bulldonkey is made in the name of what some famous person did way back when. I mean, you only ever pick the famous people that fit your point at the time of saying anyway.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 29, 2017 23:40:24 GMT
Yeah, I guess quoting things that people say is ridiculous. No, stop being foolish and 'revering' things when you could be learning from them. Reverence misses the point entirely. Well then: Quotations from famous people rarely justofy anything, especially when misinterpreted or taken out of context. So much Bulldonkey is made in the name of what some famous person did way back when. I mean, you only ever pick the famous people that fit your point at the time of saying anyway. Cool. Feel free to actually come around to debating my point then whenever you feel like it.
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Post by Azuresun on Apr 29, 2017 23:51:02 GMT
When I joined this forum, I hoped it wouldn't become Bittervet Central.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 29, 2017 23:57:41 GMT
Cool. Feel free to actually come around to debating my point then whenever you feel like it. Alright, I hate the feeling of being dismissed more than most. Point being that quotations from historical figures don't serve as justification. Not that I disagree with you on the pre measuring pedantics, I'm just saying that online petitions won't change their minds.
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Post by mikethefish on Apr 30, 2017 0:00:56 GMT
When I joined this forum, I hoped it wouldn't become Bittervet Central. To be fair, it's less this forum and more about the proxypocalypse that is infesting our community
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 30, 2017 0:39:14 GMT
Cool. Feel free to actually come around to debating my point then whenever you feel like it. Alright, I hate the feeling of being dismissed more than most. Point being that quotations from historical figures don't serve as justification. Not that I disagree with you on the pre measuring pedantics, I'm just saying that online petitions won't change their minds. I didn't use it for justification. If you actually read my post rather than falling over yourselfs to make some point about not using quotes to justify arguments (note, I didn't do that. I used it to frame my argument, something which was ignored wholesale) then you would have something to say rather than nothing arguments. God this shit infuriates me.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 30, 2017 1:04:22 GMT
I didn't use it for justification. Alright its not justification but bad framing then I suppose. "You're starving me out like the Soviets starved out those millions of people at holodamor". Also seems tacky to me. Also I believe the point was that the PETITION was stupid and was more likely to get PP to turn away then anything else. And so under those circumstances I feel its fine to call the petition stupid even if you believe in what its arguing for. PP does at times play favorites.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 30, 2017 1:36:07 GMT
I didn't use it for justification. Alright its not justification but bad framing then I suppose. "You're starving me out like the Soviets starved out those millions of people at holodamor". Also seems tacky to me. Also I believe the point was that the PETITION was stupid and was more likely to get PP to turn away then anything else. And so under those circumstances I feel its fine to call the petition stupid even if you believe in what its arguing for. PP does at times play favorites. Why is the petition stupid? PP were pretty clearly ignoring good arguments for maintaining premeasuring and unwilling to bend on a clearly bad change.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 30, 2017 1:46:26 GMT
Why is the petition stupid? PP were pretty clearly ignoring good arguments for maintaining premeasuring and unwilling to bend on a clearly bad change. Because its reactionary demanding nature is more likely to turn off PP then make them re-examine their thoughts. Quantity=/= quality of argument. Otherwise are we to vote on what rules changes happen? And again Im a guy who thinks that this is pretty dumb, and that they are fussing out of nothing when a simple "Remove all aids when your turn is over" would do fine.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 30, 2017 1:53:12 GMT
Why is the petition stupid? PP were pretty clearly ignoring good arguments for maintaining premeasuring and unwilling to bend on a clearly bad change. Because its reactionary demanding nature is more likely to turn off PP then make them re-examine their thoughts. Quantity=/= quality of argument. Otherwise are we to vote on what rules changes happen? And again Im a guy who thinks that this is pretty dumb, and that they are fussing out of nothing when a simple "Remove all aids when your turn is over" would do fine. I have yet to see a single good argument for limiting premeasuring. Not a single one.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 30, 2017 3:59:18 GMT
Octomax, can you define what a good argument for it would be? What it would have to prove to jump your bar for a "good argument"?
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 30, 2017 5:05:59 GMT
Octomax, can you define what a good argument for it would be? What it would have to prove to jump your bar for a "good argument"? A reason that doesn't rely on hyperbole,"people are planning out their entire turn and winning the game in the dojo" or relying on morality/stereotypes "people who have want full premeasuring just aren't fun to play against and will do anything to win". Especially good if they can show a battle report where proxies ruined the game. I've yet to see any game like that, I've seen many many games that have been saved from mediocrity by good information and measurement. Hell, I keep measuring things for my opponent to make sure it is accurate and that all info is open to save their clock while maintaining information clarity and accuracy. I believe that might be technically cheating now. I prefer to play the game in a state where assisting my opponent is encouraged because they can measure anything they want and so they would get info soon anyway. The current cid ruling relies on players policing each other to a much higher level.
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Post by greytemplar on Apr 30, 2017 5:16:27 GMT
Sure, though I'm willing to cut PP a bit more slack: it's their game, so they get to decide what direction to take it in (we just get to decide whether we like that direction or not and what we want to do about that), and they have much, much more information than any given player. Not everyone on CID seems to grasp this. Synergy Anyone? More information doesn't necessarily make you a more collected person. PP has shown to be utterly disconnected from the game at times, and playing their own version with whatever secret rules they want. Indeed. For a while, PP was almost farcical in their lack of knowledge about their own game. They thought Synergy had been cost3 in mk2. They thought that making Protectorate jacks Mat6 in mk3 was a stat increase over mk2. They really don't have a clue what their game is actually like, or how people actually play it. Thats why they needed to hire Pagani, he at least has some outside knowledge.
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Post by Swampmist on Apr 30, 2017 5:17:44 GMT
Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we've passed the point of no return on good, functional discussion on this topic. At least for now. This thread, and any thread like it will be closed for the next two days. I'll open "Widgetgate 2: Electric Boogaloo" then. Take the time to take a breather, relax, paint some miniatures, or get some playtesting in (maybe look at how to make the actual scenarios better?). And, in that next thread, I hope all of you can approach the topic with the gravity appropriate for the action figure equivalent of a children's card game. Passionate, yes, but this isn't a philosophy debate at Harvard.
Now, I'm back to dying of seasonal allergies and trying to study for finals.
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