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Post by tanarii on Apr 26, 2017 22:11:42 GMT
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Post by Swampmist on Apr 26, 2017 22:17:29 GMT
Oh, it's the Swans fault. Is anyone surprised
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Apr 26, 2017 22:20:31 GMT
Oh, it's the Swans fault. Is anyone surprised To be fair, I saw it in the Circle facebook group first I chuckled at that. I think that they're hurting their own cause. Almost no-one takes change.org seriously these days, and when only a handful of people sign it, it'll show PP that more people are willing to adapt than than get fanatical about whether or not they can use 2+ proxy markers at once.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 27, 2017 5:46:38 GMT
Yeah, this is really not a good idea. Then again PP has their fingers in their ears when it comes to this matter so I can very much understand the frustration that lead to this.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 27, 2017 6:52:15 GMT
Yeah, this is really not a good idea. Then again PP has their fingers in their ears when it comes to this matter so I can very much understand the frustration that lead to this. Eh. It might get better (I certainly hope so), but there are several threads on CID that'd make me figuratively put my fingers in my ears too. Regardless of my personal opinion on the matter, some players need to wake up and realize they're not God's gift to game development. That'd do a lot more to alleviate their frustration than assuming PP is going to heed their idiocies.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Apr 27, 2017 11:01:32 GMT
That's the problem with ideas - the people who have them tend to think they are great, even if others don't. So we can't just say "stupid people need to understand that their ideas are stupid" - because who gets to decide who is stupid and who isn't?
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Post by professorlust on Apr 27, 2017 11:59:50 GMT
Lurker turned poster here.
I think that people should be allowed to more or less use their 60 minutes as they see fit.
However, one thing that's been a mystery to me is when did those who rely of multiple proxys started doing so?
I mean proxy bases weren't entirely uncommon in mk2 (skorne basically required them) but they were not any where a ubiquitous as they are now.
So if you use multiple proxies on a regular basis, would you mind sharing when you started and what let you to start?
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Apr 27, 2017 12:40:30 GMT
It's clearly because in Mk2, you couldn't premeasure. Proxy bases weren't used for premeasurement, because that wasn't allowed. Proxy bases were used as stand-ins for real models, when the real model wouldn't fit.
In Mk3, proxy bases are used not as models, but to represent "this is exactly how far model X is able to move in direction Y". In Mk3, you are allowed to measure this at any time and place a marker to show your measurement. That is what people are using the proxy bases for. Which I assume they started doing as soon as they started premeasuring in Mk3.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Apr 27, 2017 13:25:22 GMT
Lurker turned poster here. I think that people should be allowed to more or less use their 60 minutes as they see fit. However, one thing that's been a mystery to me is when did those who rely of multiple proxys started doing so? I mean proxy bases weren't entirely uncommon in mk2 (skorne basically required them) but they were not any where a ubiquitous as they are now. So if you use multiple proxies on a regular basis, would you mind sharing when you started and what let you to start? I started using multiple when I started playing Kallus 2. It makes using Overrun faster and gives me more accurate measurements of where I can get a model that's making multiple movements.
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Post by shonkhor on Apr 27, 2017 13:32:13 GMT
It's clearly because in Mk2, you couldn't premeasure. Proxy bases weren't used for premeasurement, because that wasn't allowed. Proxy bases were used as stand-ins for real models, when the real model wouldn't fit. Blank bases were also used regularly in Mk2 when a charge was declared: The model declaring the charge was left in place, the angle of the charge was indicated, then a proxy base was put out to the maximum charge distance to see if the charge could make it. It was the norm for clean play. They were also often used for all sorts of other movements (e.g. running a spell martyr). There was the expectation that once the intent and proxy had been put down there would not be a 'take-back' though sometimes this was flouted. The main difference is that now proxy bases are used to mark models' future positions outside of their activation, and allow fine adjustment of final position within activation without fear of being accused of 'Pagani'.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Apr 27, 2017 13:44:05 GMT
Well put Shonkor, you are right of course. I guess you would say that proxy bases were used in Mk2 to represent models *during* movement - at the stage where the movement is definitely happening, but while you are making the movement, you need to know both where the model starts as well as where it will end at the same time. So you need two models for that.
In Mk3 it is used to represent potential outside of the movement itself, hence the proliferation.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 27, 2017 16:00:33 GMT
That's the problem with ideas - the people who have them tend to think they are great, even if others don't. So we can't just say "stupid people need to understand that their ideas are stupid" - because who gets to decide who is stupid and who isn't? People can believe their ideas are great all they want. That's perfectly fine by me. As long as they accept they can on occasion be wrong. Which isn't always the case in CID.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 27, 2017 16:04:28 GMT
Are you talking about the users or PP?
I'm of course joking. It fits anyone.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 28, 2017 13:46:41 GMT
Are you talking about the users or PP? I'm of course joking. It fits anyone. Sure, though I'm willing to cut PP a bit more slack: it's their game, so they get to decide what direction to take it in (we just get to decide whether we like that direction or not and what we want to do about that), and they have much, much more information than any given player. Not everyone on CID seems to grasp this.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 28, 2017 13:50:21 GMT
Sure, though I'm willing to cut PP a bit more slack: it's their game, so they get to decide what direction to take it in (we just get to decide whether we like that direction or not and what we want to do about that), and they have much, much more information than any given player. Not everyone on CID seems to grasp this. Synergy Anyone? More information doesn't necessarily make you a more collected person. PP has shown to be utterly disconnected from the game at times, and playing their own version with whatever secret rules they want.
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