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Post by Cookielol on Apr 20, 2017 22:31:18 GMT
If you were given one, and not the other (no option for magnetizing.) Which would you choose?
Also say if the default choice was Kraken (I see its extremely popular,) what do you possibly lose from not having a Sepulcher? Curious as I have access to borrow a Kraken from time to time.
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Post by dutchxxiii on Apr 21, 2017 2:23:36 GMT
I like Krakens self buff from corpse tokens as opposed to Sepulchers recursion. Also Krakens ranged weapons aren't tied to field of fire.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Apr 21, 2017 2:32:48 GMT
Kraken's Advantages:
1) Kraken has longer ranges. Extra 3" on the main gun and an extra 2" on the side gun. The Kraken also has a larger AoE.
2) Kraken hits harder. The main gun hits at +1 pow & Kraken's main gun and melee attacks get stronger as it collects corpses.
3) Kraken can fuel itself by turning Corpses into Focus if it doesn't need the extra hitting power.
4) Kraken can take a shot with the big gun after killing something in melee.
Sepulcher's Advantages
1) Side Guns hit harder with +1 pow & Burst Fire, and can potentially generate more shots.
2) Arcing Fire & Crit Paralysis on main gun
3) Minor utilities with Pull & Death Industry
Personally I'd go with the Kraken every time. The Sepulcher's advantages mostly minor, where the Kraken has a lot of good. Pull doesn't really matter when you're only pulling models you can already attack. What is a Cryx colossal charging that's pullable & that you're going to fail to kill in one activation? It's not like the Sepulcher has a second weapon that only has 1" reach. Crit Paralysis is good, but it's a Crit you can't count on especially since you only get one chance to hit it a turn. While the side guns are definitely better on the Sepulcher, they're much shorter ranged and need you to play your gun platform up closer than you'd have to play a Kraken. Death Industry is bad. Even if Mechanithralls got fully buffed back to their Mark2 status the ability would be bad. 4" enemy only corpse collection is not good on a utility ability. When the Kraken collects corpses at that range it gets to use them immediately to buff its power. The Sepulcher needs to wait a turn before the Thralls it creates get to do anything, assuming it can even create Thralls that turn. Created Thralls need to be in formation, and Mechanithralls are CMD 8 at best and 5 at worst. If there's no unit leader nearby it'll be a full 2 turns before the corpses you collect turn into offensive power.
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Post by Cryptix on Apr 21, 2017 2:35:38 GMT
Deller said everything for me. The Sepulcher's big shtick, Recursion, has been made useless. We choose Kraken because it's actually functional.
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Post by Cookielol on Apr 21, 2017 6:35:26 GMT
Thanks for the replies. This makes sense. So given I have access to a Kraken at will, there wouldnt even be a reason to own one (outside wanting it to be personally mine,) because having it permanently a Kraken (not magnetized) is okay.
Plus again, Kraken is just overall a better choice when going into say a SR not knowing exactly what you may face.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 21, 2017 10:56:58 GMT
I own both and while both are similar, I think the Kraken wins out with range and power of the attack. The supporting abilities of the kraken, kill shot, and the corpse collection ability to increase its own damage, and its longer range, make it a superior choice in most games.
With the Sepulcher, I have yet to use its recursion abilities, so those may as well not exist in any game I have played. Its guns can be very powerful though short range and unreliable. If they had the range overall of a leviathan, then I would be more inclined to see it on the table more. Though with interface and Mortenabra 1, I have removed at least 1 heavy from the table per turn with that combination and mostly just the side guns.
Overall, the Kraken is more versatile, reaches further and hits harder in my opinion. The sepulcher had a neat vision but with the cross over to MKIII and hit to recursion, it lost a lot. If it could use mechanithrall bodies like the necrosurgeon can, then it would be very good, but having to be within 4" of the front line where enemy models die, really hurts it in my opinion.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 24, 2017 8:51:23 GMT
I basically agree with everything Deller said and I have played both, especially the fact that the corpse mechanic on the Sepulcher basically doesn't exist is a tough one, because you really don't want it in melee, as, unlike the Kraken, then it can't shoot at all. The low range on its guns is also really harsh, putting a Colossal within 10" of something is usually a death sentence.
Maybe if it could also boost its strength with Corpse Tokens, but then instead of being able to turn it into focus, you choose to make Mechanithralls, it would be slightly better, at least it would be able to kill something unassisted.
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Post by wseraphim on Apr 24, 2017 9:14:36 GMT
Actually with Brute Thralls buff Sepulcher became a bit better. You can take 2-3 min units of thralls with max Brutes and a Necrosurgeon, screen sepulcher with McThralls and spawn more brutes for purpose of shield guard. or 19 POW charge attack eventually.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 24, 2017 9:32:42 GMT
Actually with Brute Thralls buff Sepulcher became a bit better. You can take 2-3 min units of thralls with max Brutes and a Necrosurgeon, screen sepulcher with McThralls and spawn more brutes for purpose of shield guard. or 19 POW charge attack eventually. But you can't spawn them until you make it to melee, since he only gathers within 4" and not from friendlies. That last one is the real finisher.
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Post by tiberius on Apr 24, 2017 10:23:58 GMT
I agree, if it could gather friendly thrall corpse tokens like the necrosurgeon does, it would be a lot more viable.
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Grimolf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 246
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Post by Grimolf on Apr 24, 2017 15:53:35 GMT
I was actually hoping that a Cryx theme list for mechanithralls would give some love to the Sepulcher. Infernal Machines didn't do that, so I'm not sure what will help our poor Sepulcher.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 25, 2017 6:08:39 GMT
I was actually hoping that a Cryx theme list for mechanithralls would give some love to the Sepulcher. Infernal Machines didn't do that, so I'm not sure what will help our poor Sepulcher. An errata?
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