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Post by jarikspiegel on Jun 6, 2019 8:35:23 GMT
I've been sparring with a newer player of Warmachine for some time and thought it'd be neat to try something unorthodox. My opponent has been getting better and better at expecting some of the 'klassics' in our faction, so I thought I'd mix things up with Malakov2, just for giggles.
What I wasn't prepared for, was just how surprisingly effective he was. I hadn't played him since they buffed his feat and I got to wondering if anyone else here has had any luck with Mal2.
So without further ado:
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Wolves of Winter
[Malakov 2] Kommander Andrei Malakov [+28]
- Victor [34]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Fenris [8]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Koldun Lord [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Greylord Outriders (min) [10]
Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Things that worked really well:
1.) Being able to put stealth on outriders, or better yet; a wall of doom reavers covered in blizzards is kinda amazing. When augmented with Mal telling the reavers to gain stealth, it meant having a wall of clouds that couldn't easily be shot down, and that couldn't be targeted by spells.
2.) Having an army comp with native tough made for some hilarity on feat turn. Being able to send the reavers into 2" of something that was planning to shoot, or pulling back behind a cloud was just good times.
3.) Veil of mists gave me some flexibility on the reavers. It got me stealth/ pathfinder on the reavers (which meant getting to have my anti-tough bubble instead), LOS blocking for Malakov, and helped build out my cloud wall with my pesky blizzard'd second wave.
4.) I had it on them due to a lack of choice, but ternions with tac supremacy is legit! Usually ternions are such a support piece for me that I never get to use them for anything but blizzards or risk them getting hit. With tac supremacy, they were weaving in and out, popping off spells and scampering away after restoring some dead reavers, etc...
I mean... Maybe it's just what happens when you don't play a caster for a while, but I was really excited by how well he played. May have to take him out a few more times, just for being such a tricksy chap.
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Post by steeltitan on Jun 6, 2019 10:56:48 GMT
I only ever played Malakov 2 in two test games for the Infernals theme during CID but was surprised how deep his tool kit is.
As such, I approve of this post!
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 6, 2019 11:43:04 GMT
I've got a lot of time for Malakov2. I'm not entirely keen on Open Fire, as I don't think it synergizes well with our RAT4, but it's better to have a tool than lack one.
I played him a fair amount near the beginning of Mk3, and I've never felt like I've truly understood what he wants. His feat and Escort are fantastic on Jacks, but he's focus strapped and has no other support.
But that was before the AC CID, let alone the Wolves one; it could well be that Doomies are the way to go now! Stealth is great on them, and the feat has some synergy at least. The theme contains hit fixers and damage fixers, which are both things that he needs.
Kayazy Eliminators are always good with him, by the way. They love the other battle plans
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jun 6, 2019 12:58:49 GMT
I'm a big fan of Malakov2 and like the overall look of this list! Couple thoughts: How useful is the forge seer? I struggle to leave home without two koldun lords in Wolves and he's the obvious swap. Could Midwinter become kayazy eliminators? Not sure one is strictly better than the other, but they're different options to try out. Mechaniks and outriders could become another unit of eliminators with UA. I think you have the better option currently, but just throwing the idea out there. Might prove effective? All that's just my random thoughts though, list looks good  Cheers, Dave |
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Post by auraco on Jun 6, 2019 13:15:01 GMT
I'm a big fan of Malakov2 and like the overall look of this list! Couple thoughts: How useful is the forge seer? I struggle to leave home without two koldun lords in Wolves and he's the obvious swap. Could Midwinter become kayazy eliminators? Not sure one is strictly better than the other, but they're different options to try out. Mechaniks and outriders could become another unit of eliminators with UA. I think you have the better option currently, but just throwing the idea out there. Might prove effective? All that's just my random thoughts though, list looks good Cheers, Dave At this point, I think replacing Midwinter and the mechaniks by Alexia2 would just be better, she has way more utility and it's usually pretty easy to have stuff dying around her for soul collection when playing in Wolves. |
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Post by borderprince on Jun 6, 2019 13:39:48 GMT
I've got a lot of time for Malakov2. I'm not entirely keen on Open Fire, as I don't think it synergizes well with our RAT4, but it's better to have a tool than lack one. I played him a fair amount near the beginning of Mk3, and I've never felt like I've truly understood what he wants. His feat and Escort are fantastic on Jacks, but he's focus strapped and has no other support. But that was before the AC CID, let alone the Wolves one; it could well be that Doomies are the way to go now! Stealth is great on them, and the feat has some synergy at least. The theme contains hit fixers and damage fixers, which are both things that he needs. Kayazy Eliminators are always good with him, by the way. They love the other battle plans I'd echo all of this, although it's quite a while since I've played him.
I've tried him with Victor and the extra shot is lovely, but was always so unreliable given it is unboosted. I found I liked him more with heavies for that reason. Usually Destroyer, Marauder and Juggernaut - the Destroyer was a reasonable Tac Supremacy target (move, shoot, move is nice) as well as useful for Open Fire and Escort purposes.
It may be that the Wolves CID has addressed this issue with Victor though - so far as I can see, you can use Puppetmaster from a Koldun Lord on an Open Fire shot. Not as good as a boost, but something to help with accuracy. And the Koldun Lord also provides the damage buff I think he needs to be viable into a range of match-ups. Given that Malakov2 always felt Focus starved to me, you might also need a Forgeseer (although it might be that the Adjunct is enough for that).
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Post by michael on Jun 6, 2019 13:47:40 GMT
He really, really wants a Victor. Best in-Faction target for Open Fire, bar none.
That is all.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 6, 2019 13:57:34 GMT
He really, really wants a Victor. Best in-Faction target for Open Fire, bar none. That is all. I always feel like it falls into the 'Broadsides' category; It can work if you build for it, but building for it is not necessarily a good idea. You've got better things to be doing with your focus, especially on a low-focus caster with three upkeeps. Note that I can't say that with any authority, as I've not played Malakov since the update that gave him Open Fire. It just feels like a familiar problem. |
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Post by auraco on Jun 6, 2019 14:15:26 GMT
He really, really wants a Victor. Best in-Faction target for Open Fire, bar none. That is all. I always feel like it falls into the 'Broadsides' category; It can work if you build for it, but building for it is not necessarily a good idea. You've got better things to be doing with your focus, especially on a low-focus caster with three upkeeps. Note that I can't say that with any authority, as I've not played Malakov since the update that gave him Open Fire. It just feels like a familiar problem. I don't think it's exactly the same as Harkevich's case, once Malakov has upkeept his spells, what else does he have to do with his focus other than cast open fire? We're talking about him in jaws here, so it's not like he's going to be fielding loads of jacks anyway. Considering how different their kit is I don't think the comparison with Harkevich is totally fair, Harkevich pretty much has to go for a jack build since he doesn't support anything else, and he's bad at it, but that's a discussion for an other time, Malakov2's kit offers support to pretty much every model in his army, the only models that get nothing out of being with him are battle engines, so way less restrictive than Harkevich. |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 6, 2019 14:49:15 GMT
A thought with Malakov - while VERY expensive I wonder about the SeaDog Package (seadogs+Valchev+Rockbottom). Juris has been using it to effect with Sylvestro. You get a range option with the unit. Overtake provides some HYSTERICAL options with the feat. Never a bad thing to have repo with Valachev on a unit that has RNG 14; Rat 8; Pow 10/12 rifle shots. Your army is essentially all tough. Something like.... conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0Kgyf8nj8h8h8Snf89nf89nfnfo1o5Khador Army - 70 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Malakov 2] Kommander Andrei Malakov [+28] - Victor [34] - Greylord Adjunct [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [4] Lord Rockbottom [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Sea Dog Pirates (min) [7] - Sea Dog Pirate Rifleman (3) [3] and Valachev (which conflict chamber is bugged and I can't add him for some reason) You are giving up the Ternions and Ponies. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jun 6, 2019 15:12:09 GMT
I'm a big fan of Malakov2 and like the overall look of this list! Couple thoughts: How useful is the forge seer? I struggle to leave home without two koldun lords in Wolves and he's the obvious swap. Could Midwinter become kayazy eliminators? Not sure one is strictly better than the other, but they're different options to try out. Mechaniks and outriders could become another unit of eliminators with UA. I think you have the better option currently, but just throwing the idea out there. Might prove effective? All that's just my random thoughts though, list looks good Cheers, Dave At this point, I think replacing Midwinter and the mechaniks by Alexia2 would just be better, she has way more utility and it's usually pretty easy to have stuff dying around her for soul collection when playing in Wolves. Good shout! I keep forgetting she's legit now. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by borderprince on Jun 6, 2019 16:04:15 GMT
Best in-Faction target for Open Fire, bar none. That is all. Don't disagree that Victor is the best target for Open Fire. I'm just not convinced that overall he wants a colossal over a battlegroup with a few jacks. Open Fire is in the 'nice to have' category for me, rather than something I'd build his list around. I would like something in the list that can use it, but I wasn't convinced that spending 34 points to do that was worth it. Even against jack/beast heavy lists, a Victor's unboosted Open Fire shot has good odds of missing (especially once you come across DEF12 jacks/beasts, which aren't that rare) and the scatters are only nice if there's some good targets in the vicinity. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 6, 2019 16:29:05 GMT
I've played a couple of games with Adult Andy (battle reports here and here), and I found him to be a great deal of fun. My feeling is that with Andy you can't brute-force your way through your enemy the way some buffing casters can, and you can't shut them down the way some control casters can, or really swing one aspect of the game strongly in your favour (like Vlad or Strak buffing your warjack's speed to crazy levels), but you have a variety of tools that can bring you the win if you play smart. You need to find openings to leverage his battle plans, place his AOE where it will protect a key piece or allow you to get a model into a good position, etc.
I also like that he's quite versatile in terms of list building: he can do a little for jacks, a little for infantry, etc. He's one of our few casters who directly helps Doomreavers, but he also seems to do a lot for MOW (feat, repo).
I like Alexia 1 with him: Risen are great Sucker! targets and it's relatively easy to place Risen into back arcs to leverage Throat Cutter, and if you can get Alexia herself into a back arc? That's a lot of extra damage dice! Alternately a Tanker is probably a good Sucker! target, at least for absorbing POW 10 shooting?
I haven't tried S0 with him, but I think they complement each other: she makes it easy for him to get out Stealth and increases his battlegroup's threat projection, plus she's probably a good model to apply his knockdown battle plan as she can boost the attack roll. Also it's funny to me that you can take old Andy and young Sorscha, or old Sorscha and young Andy. Sounds like a fun list pair actually...
I really like Open Fire, but I really wish it was just 1 focus. Other than Colossals we don't have any particularly good jack shooting, and the limit of 1 cast per target makes it far less useful as a melee buff than Jackhammer, so I don't think it would be OP at 1 focus. Still, it's versatile: it can serve as a damage buff (a Juggernaut, Colossal or Behemoth getting an extra melee attack can potentially be worth 2 focus), help a jack clear it's own charge lane, give you some extra anti-infantry if you brought a Destroyer, etc. Unfortunately he's sufficiently focus starved that can be hard to find the focus for it.
Overall, as a non-competitive player who doesn't play themes I think he's fun and versatile. I don't think he's oppressive for your opponents either (maybe the feat a little bit, at least if you build for it?), so I like him as a caster for casual games and when playing against less experienced players. I think it can make for a lively game that's fun for your opponent even if you win.
Well, that's my impression from a couple of games and a bunch of theorymachine anyway. I'd love to play him more, but I don't get games anymore.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 6, 2019 18:42:57 GMT
Good points Soul Samurai. I wonder whether there's a nice Open Fire synergy with Ruin in Wolves? Open Fire can be used before Ruin's activation to let him make an attack (with 2" reach). If he kills a living model he gains a soul token, which he can then convert to Focus at the start of his activation. Potentially let's you both unjam and fuel him. And Ruin always like casters with a threat extender. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 6, 2019 18:58:56 GMT
I wonder whether there's a nice Open Fire synergy with Ruin in Wolves? Open Fire can be used before Ruin's activation to let him make an attack (with 2" reach). If he kills a living model he gains a soul token, which he can then convert to Focus at the start of his activation. Potentially let's you both unjam and fuel him. I like that interaction! Very situational, but it would be nice when it happens.
Personally I have a soft spot for the (very stupid) idea of running Beast 09 to engage a Warcaster, then casting Open Fire for a reasonable chance at leaving them stationary (plus of course a solid P+S 19 hit). Definitely a Hail Mary move.
It's a shame that it doesn't trigger the Grolar's Knockdown or the Decimator's Beat Back.
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