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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 5, 2019 13:37:32 GMT
The thread by welshhoppo has inspired me to try Old Witch 2 in Wolves. My meta tends to bring a fair amount of armor bricks (especially Grymkin, but also Trolls, Circle, and Skorne although the latter will include immortals and Rasheth double derp turtles), and I’d like my Wolves drop to be able to ALSO cover that (in addition to infantrymachine or good old fashioned combined arms). I like the idea of OW2 for layering de-buffs and protection against ranged attacks. I originally liked her for because she’s such a strong jack caster. So, I’ve been noodling on how to build her with 60+ points of Wolves, at least 30 doom reavers (I always find I run out of Plan A against armor when I take 4 or fewer units), and 3 hard hitting jacks. This is what I’ve come up with. Please let me know what you think. Zevanna Agha, The Fate Keeper - WJ: +27 - Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Koldun Lord - PC: 0 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 - Greylord Escort - PC: 3 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Greylord Ternion - Leader & 2 Grunts: 0
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on May 5, 2019 13:41:29 GMT
Seems reasonable
Another option is to fit AHV in there, but you won’t get 3 jacks.
No shooting in your list is sad, so you can’t touch support. But you do hit hard with trip jug.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 5, 2019 15:50:31 GMT
How would you feel about trying to sneak in a forgeseer? I'm not sure how useful Empower would actually be though, might require testing.
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Post by jdeckert on May 5, 2019 16:04:04 GMT
Ymmv, but I don't like dedicated melee jacks in wolves all that much. They don't usually contribute until very late in the game. They can be all stars then, or they can be too little too late. I've been running her with 2x destroyers. They've been more consistent and versatile for me thanks to their ranged output. Plus PS 17 isn't too bad when you add in the debuffs. Yeah a juggernaut is going to do like 10 more points of damage in melee, but if the destroyer shoots once or twice before going in they make up a chunk of that.
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Post by welshhoppo on May 5, 2019 16:16:35 GMT
Oh no. Someone is trying to use my ideas. Bad juju.
Anyway as you've seen I've been running her for a while. I have two more updates to the list, which I should update at some point. One was a victory into Nemo3 and the other a loss into Hark. Turns out a kodiak cloud wall is really sad without a spriggan. But I don't think I want to run Spriggan Rager, as I'm squeezed for my 15 points of mercs.
I have actually come to the decision to swap out my Juggernaut for a kodiak. For the additional speed and pathfinder. On top of that, due to the double Kolduns and Aiyana and Holt in my list, you can make them PS22 effectively. Which is often more than enough for damage.
But I do really recommend a ranged jack. Just for support killing purposes. You can double stack puppet master and divination from the OW2 for two rerolls to hit it makes the rat4 pretty accurate up to about def16.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 6, 2019 17:26:55 GMT
Thanks folks for your replies. Thoughts below: Seems reasonable Another option is to fit AHV in there, but you won’t get 3 jacks. No shooting in your list is sad, so you can’t touch support. But you do hit hard with trip jug. I don't want AHV in the list. The rationale for the 3rd jack is more than just that it can hit hard. It's also: (1) Better scenario presence. A&H don't help that. (2) Adding an attrition element to the list. Wolves gets sad when you start to thin out the doomies. A third jack does wonders for that. That said, You're damn right about being sad without a 3rd ranged jack. Based on your feedback and others I think I'd be happy with this tradeoff - losing one Escort (I still have 2, one for each side of the board), and I'd gain a Gobber for better scenario and also healing Old Witch. I have each side covered with a Juggernaut, and one great ranged jack for sniping. How would you feel about trying to sneak in a forgeseer? I'm not sure how useful Empower would actually be though, might require testing. Points are tight, soulsamurai. I'd much rather have either the Ternion or a Koldun Lord, and when it really matters Old Witch isn't focused starved because of her arcane machinery/feat. Ymmv, but I don't like dedicated melee jacks in wolves all that much. They don't usually contribute until very late in the game. They can be all stars then, or they can be too little too late. I've been running her with 2x destroyers. They've been more consistent and versatile for me thanks to their ranged output. Plus PS 17 isn't too bad when you add in the debuffs. Yeah a juggernaut is going to do like 10 more points of damage in melee, but if the destroyer shoots once or twice before going in they make up a chunk of that. My mileage has varied. Last game I took Ruin and a Marauder and they did great and felt useful. I generally just run them full speed turn 1. I think you have a good point about the Destroyer, which is why I'm incorporating one into the edited list. The big thing is that I want a 3rd jack, and want the melee output, but I doubt I lose much on the melee side but gain something really useful with the gun given the above swap. I also looked at subbing in Victor and a Berserker, which I think is more cute than good (hard to fit in 2 large bases, Berserker can't take focus, etc.) Oh no. Someone is trying to use my ideas. Bad juju. ... But I do really recommend a ranged jack. Just for support killing purposes. You can double stack puppet master and divination from the OW2 for two rerolls to hit it makes the rat4 pretty accurate up to about def16. Naw, it's good juju. Take the compliment! What do you think about the list now?
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on May 7, 2019 11:50:14 GMT
Does switching one or both jugs for kodiaks help?
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Post by welshhoppo on May 7, 2019 12:02:57 GMT
The list seems pretty good. I'd be worried about a lack of solos however. You only have two Kolduns and a gobber. It's one of the main reasons that I brought in Alexia2, because if you lose reavers, you get solos who are almost as good to replace them.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 7, 2019 12:33:48 GMT
mrtuna, maybe.... But with Boundless Charge on a stick I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary. &welshhoppo, yes, you’re right of course but I can’t have everything I want. If I put her in, I’m losing either a unit of Reavers or a Jack and then the list doesn’t do what I want it to do. I’ll give this list a try and report back.
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Post by welshhoppo on May 8, 2019 19:40:03 GMT
Yes. You'd have to lose one of the warjacks. Probably the Juggernaut.
It's only due to the poor defence of the solos that we have.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on May 9, 2019 1:26:51 GMT
Yes. You'd have to lose one of the warjacks. Probably the Juggernaut. It's only due to the poor defence of the solos that we have. Funny enough, looking at the new steamroller packet in CID, that’s going to heavily favor having a robust supply of solos to contest and score. I think Fenris and Alexia 2s stock just went up. If my other list covers the really armor cracking, I could drop a Jugg and Tinker for both those models. Not what I‘d intended but...
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Post by gobber on May 9, 2019 2:00:59 GMT
To be fair Alexia has already been doing some good armor cracking for me lately. It's unusual not to spawn her points worth of weaponmasters, and even if they hit slightly less hard than doomreavers the activation flexibility, threat range, jank like spawning over walls, and their solo status makes up for it. Those new scenarios are icing on the cake.
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Post by welshhoppo on May 10, 2019 6:52:00 GMT
Yes. Alexia2 basically turns a dead reaver into a Reaver-1. Except she can make them threat 21 inches (walk, spawn in three, charge and smack)
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