|
Post by josephkerr on Feb 28, 2019 3:29:53 GMT
Looks interesting. The idea of their “beasts/jacks” needing to pay to stick around is interesting. And it means that if they go all in on something they need to get filled with some more essence or they’ll go poof. Sacrificing a beast to win the game, or even gain a large advantage, is a no brainer and not much of a cost. If your opponent doesnt have to spend any activations to kill ur heavy, thats +X army points as an opportunity cost for free.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Feb 28, 2019 3:48:57 GMT
Its a mix of the fury and focus mechanic.
Its focus in so far as you need to hand out resources from your caster to your beasts/jack; hence they drain your casters' resources directly.
Its fury in so far as you can go 'all out' for one turn and then let them vanish the next (frenzy in the case of fury).
Allowing summoning anytime during activation and then allowing the beast to activate fully seems kinda difficult to balance (remember, they charge for free and come with 1 essence).
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Feb 28, 2019 5:58:13 GMT
I'm sure that there will be another aspect, like having the room to place the model when it comes out. It will provide opportunity to get some work out of Counter Chargers and Counterblasters against the Melee Horrors, at least, which will probably mean that Ranged Horrors will be the common counter (pardon the pun) to that strategy.
As it is, construct-intensive or undead-intensive lists will probably be the favorite counters (depending on how they gather the souls for essence), so Warjacks may end up being favorite builds for many factions.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Feb 28, 2019 6:28:03 GMT
Well yeah. The thing is often you go all in with the intention to follow up next turn. If Infernals do that, the thing they used to go all in with is gone.
I think it also might make them vulnerable to attrition playstyles because they won't have much staying power. If they're only getting 3-4 attacks a turn with a heavy vs 5-6 a normal one might make, because they have to save 1 bought attack to stick around, they could fall behind in the damage output. Depends on their Mat/P+S of course.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Feb 28, 2019 8:03:26 GMT
Great write up with one mistake.
Rings. If the middle ring is gone, horrors gain one less die on attack rolls. Not damage rolls. See youtube video 15:00 minute mark for explination and image of rule.
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Feb 28, 2019 8:48:09 GMT
Finally got round to watching the stream this morning. Few thoughts:
1. Faction sounds interesting as its presented, sacrificing your models to maintain the power of your caster and horrors. Interesting play styles possible especially with the need to maintain essence.
2. While we have yet to see the CiD rules, I really hope that PP has put lots of extra time and effort into trying to balance this faction and the play mechanics BEFORE they put it into CiD because, if this is all over the place then I have very little faith in the communities ability to balance this faction to a reasonable level. If the CiD rule arrive and they are a mess or OP, im pretty certain then the faction will remain a mess or OP. But again, without seeing the CiD rules I could be worrying over nothing and PP have done proper quality control on this
3. I hope this is the last of the mini factions that PP do for a while. Infernals are cool and have been long anticipated. But the game does not need another faction after this. It needs proper internal game balance and community building.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Feb 28, 2019 8:52:53 GMT
3. I hope this is the last of the mini factions that PP do for a while. Infernals are cool and have been long anticipated. But the game does not need another faction after this. It needs proper internal game balance and community building. Unlikely. It's prob one of the few ways they keep a steady stream of $$$ from the main game -- getting existing players to buy into a new faction. It's far more difficult to get a new player in.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Feb 28, 2019 9:16:22 GMT
3. I hope this is the last of the mini factions that PP do for a while. Infernals are cool and have been long anticipated. But the game does not need another faction after this. It needs proper internal game balance and community building. Unlikely. It's prob one of the few ways they keep a steady stream of $$$ from the main game -- getting existing players to buy into a new faction. It's far more difficult to get a new player in. I think it's called whale-hunting in mobile games; making it your business strategy to go after the small percentage of people who generate the most money. I hope that's not what they're going for, since without new players any game will die eventually.
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Feb 28, 2019 9:31:10 GMT
3. I hope this is the last of the mini factions that PP do for a while. Infernals are cool and have been long anticipated. But the game does not need another faction after this. It needs proper internal game balance and community building. Unlikely. It's prob one of the few ways they keep a steady stream of $$$ from the main game -- getting existing players to buy into a new faction. It's far more difficult to get a new player in. I agree. I thought that one of the ideas of the mini factions was to make it easier for new players to get into the game with a smaller number of models. But: • CoC has a unique focus manipulation mechanic which is different to all the other WM factions. An added layer of complexity which increases the learning curve • Grymkin has unique abilities and reactive mini feats. Again, different to how all other other factions play at a basic mechanics level • Infernals appear to have a very unique power mechanic with essence, summoning and how horrors work that is totally different from other factions. Again, based on what we know at this time, I could not recommend this to a beginner due to the added complexity. So the only mini faction that is “normal” in terms of its rules is CG. Pushing out more and more models to a possibly shrinking pool of players is not a wise business move. PP needs to ensure its player base is growing again before putting more factions out. That’s partly down to the company to do and partly down to us as a community to take the initiatives produced by PP and use them. But community growth is a different topic/thread to the Infernals rules.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Feb 28, 2019 9:49:04 GMT
I am cautiously optimistic about Riot Quest and the rumoured new smaller competitive format, which may be gateways for new players.
It is also worth noting that smaller new factions is how GW currently runs AoS.
|
|
|
Post by beardmonk on Feb 28, 2019 10:03:34 GMT
I am cautiously optimistic about Riot Quest and the rumoured new smaller competitive format, which may be gateways for new players. It is also worth noting that smaller new factions is how GW currently runs AoS. This is true. But they also had to burn their previous game to the ground and erase all the old models/SKU's prior to getting to that point.
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Feb 28, 2019 10:43:47 GMT
My thoughts:
- I foresee a huge issue balancing the performance of a Horror you paid points for and is on the table from one that popped and is ready to rumble. CID discussions will be heated.
- 12/12 that just have to be in control range aren't really that vulnerable, especially when a heavy in the face can be the price of moving forward. Something valuable.
- I’m REALLY curious about the point cost of those “super-soul” guys with powerful support abilities. I also want to know if they count for themes and how they are purchased for lists.
- The hype is definitely on. Ppl want the REALLY scary monsters with distinct features. CG was not that.
- How do you buy horrors? How many do you need to strike a balance between playability and price/transportation?
|
|
|
Post by dogganmguest on Feb 28, 2019 11:43:59 GMT
CID discussions will be heated. Go easy on those revelations, Nostradamus
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Feb 28, 2019 12:30:44 GMT
CID discussions will be heated. Go easy on those revelations, Nostradamus Touché! My psychic internet masters wasn't as good as I thought I meant on this particular point. It'll be very hard to evaluate a missile that was just created and something that has been on the table and *GASP* in danger.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Feb 28, 2019 12:46:33 GMT
... The only thing I don’t like from what they’ve said so far is that some casters/warlocks effectively don’t get feats. Doomie1 and Mohsar spring to mind, but there are probably more. Going in to a game without a feat isn’t fun for anyone. Greed, but those casters basically have no feat against warmachine anyway
|
|