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Post by Cookielol on Apr 17, 2017 23:55:25 GMT
Simple concept. Brainstormed a few lists and would like to know your opinions on them. How they are weak, why they wouldnt work, or why they synergize and are effective! I see this (if it works out right,) as a great tool to help me understand list making as it seems there are not set in stone lists, ever. Rather there are synergies that need to be met and as a total NOOB im trying to grasp these. On to the lists I made! (I own the AIO/MKIII BB, MKII BB, & Aiakos1 + Stalker currently.): NOTE: I am mostly making these lists to see LGS SR events. The local meta in general likes to duke it out rather than go for scenario play/points although the competitive (seasoned) players do go for scenario wins when presented. Id like to do the same and go for the objective wins all while being able to exploit presented opportunities for assassination/attrition if available. **If you have suggestions for change, they are too appreciated, but keep in mind the original concept of help im asking for!** conflictchamber.com/#b41b0xd-1e1u1v1v2C1z1A1N1PCryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Deneghra 1) Warwitch Deneghra [+28] - Inflictor [13] - Ripjaw [7] - Seether [13] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] Bane Lord Tartarus [8] Bane Warriors (max) [17] - Bane Warrior Officer & Standard [6] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3] conflictchamber.com/#b41bf_1s1t1e1u1v2k2k2n2t2tg71N1PCryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] - Leviathan [16] - Reaper [13] - Ripjaw [7] - Seether [13] - Slayer [10] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Necrotech [2] Pistol Wraith [5] Pistol Wraith [5] Carrion Thralls (max) [10] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3] conflictchamber.com/#b41bbY1k19d-1ue21h1h2E1y1N1PCryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Asphyxious 3) Asphyxious the Hellbringer [+24] - Cankerworm [9] - Deathripper [6] - Inflictor [13] - Seether [13] Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius [4] - Stalker [8] - Stalker [8] Darragh Wrathe [9] Bane Warriors (min) [10] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3] conflictchamber.com/#b41bf_191t1u1v1v2E2t2tgege1N1PCryx Army - 75 / 75 points (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] - Deathripper [6] - Reaper [13] - Seether [13] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] Darragh Wrathe [9] Pistol Wraith [5] Pistol Wraith [5] Satyxis Gunslingers [7] Satyxis Gunslingers [7] Satyxis Raiders (max) [16] - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3] *****This last list I have no clue if it can/will work but its interesting for sure!***** Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Asphyxious 3) Asphyxious the Hellbringer [+24] - Deathripper [6] - Inflictor [13] - Leviathan [16] - Reaper [13] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Necrotech [2] Pistol Wraith [0(5)] Pistol Wraith [0(5)] Carrion Thralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (max) [10] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Mechanithralls (max) [10] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] |
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605 
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Post by Deller on Apr 18, 2017 1:49:10 GMT
I think the Asphyxious3 lists look pretty good, they'll require play testing and refinement to see what works great and what can be improved on, but I think the core of the lists look good. I personally think the Infernal Machines version looks like the better of the two, but I'd definitely try to shift points around to include Cankerworm. In case you're unaware Cankerworm's bond allows him to be included in any theme force as long as he's controlled by his bonded caster, which in this case is Asphyxious. I'd personally get the 9 points by reducing Mechanithrall units to minimum units and maybe playing around with what jacks I want in the battlegroup or changing out some support solos.
The big issue I think you're going to have with those Agathia & Deneghra1 lists are too many Warjacks with too little support. You have a lot of Warjacks in all 3 of those lists and absolutely nothing to assist you with focus management. No Warwitch Sirens for extra focus, no Spell Slave to help cast spells like Ghost Walk, and very focus hungry jacks like Slayers with casters that want to be casting Parasite every turn is going to leave half of your army performing at suboptimal levels all game. With Deneghra1 I'd personally go down to one Heavy, and definitely wouldn't advise bringing more than two. Deneghra1 also wants a minimum of Two arc nodes to let her apply the Debuffs she relies on from safe distances. If you want more Warjacks with Deneghra1 I'd recommend adding the Aiakos + Stalker package you have as it frees Deneghra1 from having to fuel them, and Deneghra makes Stalkers hit as hard as heavies with Parasite + The Withering. With Agathia I personally like having two heavies, but 3-4 heavies can work provided you bring the correct support. If you want to go the multiple heavy route I'd advise bringing along a Spell Slave to cast Ghost Walk for her, bringing Warwitch Sirens to help aleivate the focus burden, or putting one of the heavies on Aiakos1 or an Iron Lich Overseer to again help take the focus burden off of Agathia.
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Post by Cookielol on Apr 18, 2017 2:36:18 GMT
I think the Asphyxious3 lists look pretty good, they'll require play testing and refinement to see what works great and what can be improved on, but I think the core of the lists look good. I personally think the Infernal Machines version looks like the better of the two, but I'd definitely try to shift points around to include Cankerworm. In case you're unaware Cankerworm's bond allows him to be included in any theme force as long as he's controlled by his bonded caster, which in this case is Asphyxious. I'd personally get the 9 points by reducing Mechanithrall units to minimum units and maybe playing around with what jacks I want in the battlegroup or changing out some support solos. The big issue I think you're going to have with those Agathia & Deneghra1 lists are too many Warjacks with too little support. You have a lot of Warjacks in all 3 of those lists and absolutely nothing to assist you with focus management. No Warwitch Sirens for extra focus, no Spell Slave to help cast spells like Ghost Walk, and very focus hungry jacks like Slayers with casters that want to be casting Parasite every turn is going to leave half of your army performing at suboptimal levels all game. With Deneghra1 I'd personally go down to one Heavy, and definitely wouldn't advise bringing more than two. Deneghra1 also wants a minimum of Two arc nodes to let her apply the Debuffs she relies on from safe distances. If you want more Warjacks with Deneghra1 I'd recommend adding the Aiakos + Stalker package you have as it frees Deneghra1 from having to fuel them, and Deneghra makes Stalkers hit as hard as heavies with Parasite + The Withering. With Agathia I personally like having two heavies, but 3-4 heavies can work provided you bring the correct support. If you want to go the multiple heavy route I'd advise bringing along a Spell Slave to cast Ghost Walk for her, bringing Warwitch Sirens to help aleivate the focus burden, or putting one of the heavies on Aiakos1 or an Iron Lich Overseer to again help take the focus burden off of Agathia. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for! I keep forgetting that about Canker, and I know he has a reputation to be annoying if not brutal on the battlefield. So a Skarlock or even WSC (unless its too expensive/difficult to pull off for a newbie) would be a nice investment. Okay. As you can see im trying to stay with "simple" casters before branching out to say Coven or something like that. Something tells me that Aggy1 may get some attention with a minor tweak in the Bane CID. Cant say exactly what, but she is a Bane so maybe something small to make he see more presence more often. As for the amount of jacks, that makes total sense. Without buying anything else, Im currently just Jack heavy with out two Units of infantry. I want to eventually invest in Carrion Thralls & Mechanathralls+WAs as I like the idea of having them clutter the field and secure positions for Scenario/Attrition. It might be a mean thing to consider but about half of the WMH players at my LGS are New or Novice players (including me,) and I think Infernal Troop Spam might give me an edge against pairing with them. My personal goal is to win one game via scenario or assassination within six months against a experienced player. That should be 6-10 SRs. May not come to fruition, but thats a benchmark of mine. |
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Post by wseraphim on Apr 18, 2017 7:28:33 GMT
On Denegra1 i usually go smth like conflictchamber.com/#b41b0x19191se21uCryx Army - 17 / 75 points !!! Your army must contain at least 98 total points. (Deneghra 1) Warwitch Deneghra [+28] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Leviathan [16] (or DJ if you want to spam scourge) Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius [4] - Seether [13] and on agathia conflictchamber.com/#b41bf_1w19e21uCryx Army - 17 / 75 points !!! Your army must contain at least 99 total points. (Agathia 1) Bane Witch Agathia [+29] - Deathjack [23] - Deathripper [6] Aiakos, Scourge of the Meredius [4] - Seether [13] Both Denny1 and Aggy are similar. Both cast Parasite each turn, both have ghostly. Thus, both perfectly supports units like Soulhunters and Satyxis Raiders. And Both like Aiakos for threat increase, free focus for jacks and grievous wounds. Due to def debuffing Denegra actualy likes shooting options more than Agathia. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 18, 2017 7:48:18 GMT
I think Aiakos is better with a Stalker or 2, because they become scary assassination pieces with the movement buff. Seethers are good on Iron Lich Overseers, especially if the latter is free in theme and if you have a couple of Warwitch Siresn around to feed it extra focus.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Apr 18, 2017 8:56:52 GMT
I think the Asphyxious3 lists look pretty good, they'll require play testing and refinement to see what works great and what can be improved on, but I think the core of the lists look good. I personally think the Infernal Machines version looks like the better of the two, but I'd definitely try to shift points around to include Cankerworm. In case you're unaware Cankerworm's bond allows him to be included in any theme force as long as he's controlled by his bonded caster, which in this case is Asphyxious. I'd personally get the 9 points by reducing Mechanithrall units to minimum units and maybe playing around with what jacks I want in the battlegroup or changing out some support solos. The big issue I think you're going to have with those Agathia & Deneghra1 lists are too many Warjacks with too little support. You have a lot of Warjacks in all 3 of those lists and absolutely nothing to assist you with focus management. No Warwitch Sirens for extra focus, no Spell Slave to help cast spells like Ghost Walk, and very focus hungry jacks like Slayers with casters that want to be casting Parasite every turn is going to leave half of your army performing at suboptimal levels all game. With Deneghra1 I'd personally go down to one Heavy, and definitely wouldn't advise bringing more than two. Deneghra1 also wants a minimum of Two arc nodes to let her apply the Debuffs she relies on from safe distances. If you want more Warjacks with Deneghra1 I'd recommend adding the Aiakos + Stalker package you have as it frees Deneghra1 from having to fuel them, and Deneghra makes Stalkers hit as hard as heavies with Parasite + The Withering. With Agathia I personally like having two heavies, but 3-4 heavies can work provided you bring the correct support. If you want to go the multiple heavy route I'd advise bringing along a Spell Slave to cast Ghost Walk for her, bringing Warwitch Sirens to help aleivate the focus burden, or putting one of the heavies on Aiakos1 or an Iron Lich Overseer to again help take the focus burden off of Agathia. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for! I keep forgetting that about Canker, and I know he has a reputation to be annoying if not brutal on the battlefield. So a Skarlock or even WSC (unless its too expensive/difficult to pull off for a newbie) would be a nice investment. Okay. As you can see im trying to stay with "simple" casters before branching out to say Coven or something like that. Something tells me that Aggy1 may get some attention with a minor tweak in the Bane CID. Cant say exactly what, but she is a Bane so maybe something small to make he see more presence more often. As for the amount of jacks, that makes total sense. Without buying anything else, Im currently just Jack heavy with out two Units of infantry. I want to eventually invest in Carrion Thralls & Mechanathralls+WAs as I like the idea of having them clutter the field and secure positions for Scenario/Attrition. It might be a mean thing to consider but about half of the WMH players at my LGS are New or Novice players (including me,) and I think Infernal Troop Spam might give me an edge against pairing with them. My personal goal is to win one game via scenario or assassination within six months against a experienced player. That should be 6-10 SRs. May not come to fruition, but thats a benchmark of mine. Personally if you're going to invest in a Spell Slave I'd invest in the Withershadow before a Skarlock as I prefer the Combine with the majority of casters who want an attachment, the big exception being Skarre1. Thankfully the Withershadow and Sirens aren't too expensive, at $25 and $12 USD respectively, and you can currently go with the Aiakos plan in the mean time, and who knows, maybe you'll like that plan better anyway. At the moment with what you own I would definitely say your main Warcaster should probably be Asphyxious3. He compliments the models you currently own the best since the AIO box was built with him in mind, and he's by far the best Warjack caster between the casters you've listed. |
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Post by tiberius on Apr 18, 2017 10:50:01 GMT
Welcome to Cryx Cookielol, I agree with what the others were saying. You look like you have a good core for your asphyxious 3 lists. As far as Denegra or Agathea goes, Denegra has a good knock down spell and is the queen of debuffs. Agathea can deliver things a bit better with her feat. On that note, I would take more arc nodes and ranged options with Denegra and slower hard hitting stuff with Agathea.
For example, someone mentioned two arc nodes and a leviathan as Denegra's battle group. That is a good suggestion. I would also include a pair of pistol wraiths with her (which you were including in Agathea's one list) and a unit that can weather shooting for a turn or two, like satyxis with their high defense and immune to blast damage. The plan would be to get an arc node into position, feat, arc scourge at target of choice, knock it down, maybe do some damage, apply a debuff of choice, then move the leviathan into position and blow it up. If its still alive, move pistol wraiths into positions to kill. If its still alive (knocked down and stationary) see if anything can get into melee to finish it off.
I have less experience with Agathea, but her feat can protect the banes for a turn, or give out ghostly to your entire army to circumvent heavy terrain. She has some nice movement tricks herself with a little teleport which she can still act afterwards. But she wants more self sufficient packages that are going to take care of business with out much support from her.
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