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Post by onijet01 on Dec 13, 2018 14:38:48 GMT
I dunno, it just seems like a lot of faff for 5x P13s. Or 10x poor P11s. It's the RNG10 that kills them, IMO. Its not for those options. After zepher they can be 13 inches from their targets (outside most charge ranges) and they bring ranged chip and anti armor potential. Pow13 as you said is enough to kill (7 average) arm 15 5hp models. They also can shell out any combination from 1 to 10 attacks. Pow varies. Truth is the units has great flexibility just average cost and stated.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Dec 13, 2018 14:53:00 GMT
I dunno, it just seems like a lot of faff for 5x P13s. Or 10x poor P11s. It's the RNG10 that kills them, IMO. Its not for those options. After zepher they can be 13 inches from their targets (outside most charge ranges) and they bring ranged chip and anti armor potential. Pow13 as you said is enough to kill (7 average) arm 15 5hp models. They also can shell out any combination from 1 to 10 attacks. Pow varies. Truth is the units has great flexibility just average cost and stated. But aren't they sitting at 17 points with Valachev? At that point I would rather just take Widowmakers and a Widowmaker Marksman. Start with better RAT and range, have Sniper (or better), Pathfinder, are friendly faction... And gain Swift Hunter. Maybe I am just not seeing what makes the updated Steelhead Riflemen look so good outside of Legion of Steel or potentially Armored Corps (I don't play those themes so that may be why).
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 13, 2018 15:00:39 GMT
Its not for those options. After zepher they can be 13 inches from their targets (outside most charge ranges) and they bring ranged chip and anti armor potential. Pow13 as you said is enough to kill (7 average) arm 15 5hp models. They also can shell out any combination from 1 to 10 attacks. Pow varies. Truth is the units has great flexibility just average cost and stated. But aren't they sitting at 17 points with Valachev? At that point I would rather just take Widowmakers and a Widowmaker Marksman. Start with better RAT and range, have Sniper (or better), Pathfinder, are friendly faction... And gain Swift Hunter. Maybe I am just not seeing what makes the updated Steelhead Riflemen look so good outside of Legion of Steel or potentially Armored Corps (I don't play those themes so that may be why). Armoured Corps has better shooting options just from the Tankers, to be honest. But I'm in the same boat as you; I'm just not seeing what's meant to be so good about them outside of the truly shooting-starved LegoS
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Post by P'tit Nico on Dec 13, 2018 15:02:04 GMT
Pow13 as you said is enough to kill (7 average) arm 15 5hp models. You should not believe in "average rolls". For example, a two-man CRA (RAT 7 POW 13) has only a 54% chance of killing a DEF 13 ARM 15 model with 5 HP (a Tharn Ravager for instance). And yes, that includes the reroll.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Dec 13, 2018 15:43:59 GMT
The draw is shooting into melee to remove infantry ran in to jam your heavies. Sure, the widowmakers would be better against infantry out in the open, but in melee these guys are better. CRA on a 10-man unit also gives flexibility on what they can shoot at.
Finally with Zephyr they only threat 1" less than widowmakers. Ignoring AD obviously, though that ocan just get widowmakers killed faster. Which actually reminds me: better against incoming blasts as well.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 13, 2018 15:47:26 GMT
So far I've written a Sorscha1 Legion of Steel list and a Karchev Jaws of the Wolf list containing steelhead riflemen that I like the look of. They can be surprisingly tricky to get into lists. I think you have to accept you're not getting the masimum number of free things if you take them (they use 13 of the 15 "free" points), but that's not a big deal really. Cheers, Dave I get the LoS build, but not jaws. For 8 points I’d rather have 4 advance deployed wisp makers and for five more I’d rather include Kayazy Elims (who are great at un jamming jacks). I do disagree w Hoc. Free Forge Seers, Yuri, a WMM or Sorscha 0 are all gold with Karchev - the theme benefits stink but the free models are useful.
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Post by borderprince on Dec 13, 2018 16:38:38 GMT
They can be surprisingly tricky to get into lists. I think you have to accept you're not getting the masimum number of free things if you take them (they use 13 of the 15 "free" points), but that's not a big deal really. and hocestbellum I won't have a chance to take part in the CID, but based on mk2 and 3 experience with them in merc lists, don't assume you want a max unit of Steelhead Rifles. A min unit will often put out enough shots, even with CRA for the unjamming & target of opportunity sniping roles.
I think the trickier part is that you have to choose between them and Eliminators in most lists and we all know that Eliminators are really good.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Dec 13, 2018 18:09:44 GMT
I'm more interested in that Halberdiers with recursion package for Last Stand
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Dec 13, 2018 18:17:05 GMT
They can be surprisingly tricky to get into lists. I think you have to accept you're not getting the masimum number of free things if you take them (they use 13 of the 15 "free" points), but that's not a big deal really. and hocestbellum I won't have a chance to take part in the CID, but based on mk2 and 3 experience with them in merc lists, don't assume you want a max unit of Steelhead Rifles. A min unit will often put out enough shots, even with CRA for the unjamming & target of opportunity sniping roles.
I think the trickier part is that you have to choose between them and Eliminators in most lists and we all know that Eliminators are really good.
Use Jaws, take both! Cheers, Dave
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Post by sand20go on Dec 13, 2018 21:00:23 GMT
I'm more interested in that Halberdiers with recursion package for Last Stand Oh that is funny. Cause they are just destroyed, not RFP'ed so they can come back and do it again ;-)
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Post by Netherby on Dec 14, 2018 2:34:19 GMT
I mean, it's interesting. But you're only getting D3 back...
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Post by borderprince on Dec 14, 2018 4:29:23 GMT
I mean, it's interesting. But you're only getting D3 back... You can use CMAs when attacking under Last Stand. Then not all of the unit will be making attacks which trigger Last Stand and D3 replenishment might be enough.
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Post by auraco on Dec 14, 2018 14:49:26 GMT
I do like the idea of the steelhead riflemen with a steelhead arcanist solo in legion of steel, they provide shooting and magic weapons to a theme that lacks both. Legion of steel is the only theme where I would consider them though. Also probably only with Irusk2 for tactician and solid ground. Other than that I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of steelhead in our competitive lists.
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Post by borderprince on Dec 14, 2018 17:09:38 GMT
I do like the idea of the steelhead riflemen with a steelhead arcanist solo in legion of steel, they provide shooting and magic weapons to a theme that lacks both. Legion of steel is the only theme where I would consider them though. Also probably only with Irusk2 for tactician and solid ground. Other than that I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of steelhead in our competitive lists. Although if the Greylord Adjunct remains available in LoS, then less need for magic weapons in that theme. If you have a decent shooting presence (ie Victor/Conquest) in your battlegroup anyway, probably less need for the riflemen.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 13, 2019 9:25:11 GMT
Finally got round to trying out the steelhead halberdiers with Last Stand! Report in the battle reports section as normal. Made for an interesting list, I'll definitely be trying it again once the CiD changes are confirmed/denied.
Cheers, Dave
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