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Post by jdeckert on Dec 11, 2018 18:28:59 GMT
I played armored corps into Zaal2/statues, and it went well. He doesn't really boost their power, so they don't just wreck man-o-war despite being somewhat hard-hitting natively. I think Butcher3 AC would work pretty well into some of these matchups where you want RFP.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Dec 11, 2018 18:39:36 GMT
I'm just going off what was said earlier. From what I can tell it's RFP? RFP is valuable into the Morv1 match up. Since we can't dispell the stupid upkeep off the one unit (outside of Zerk1 and/or Ruin) RFP helps reduce its utility.
We also have access to Eilish, granted his dispel is on an 11 inch bubble, but you still have to respect it.
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Post by streetpizza on Dec 11, 2018 20:21:11 GMT
RFP is valuable into the Morv1 match up. Since we can't dispell the stupid upkeep off the one unit (outside of Zerk1 and/or Ruin) RFP helps reduce its utility.
We also have access to Eilish, granted his dispel is on an 11 inch bubble, but you still have to respect it. Doesn't work on Morv1 anyway. She can just take 1d3 damage to keep any upkeep spell in play when its dispelled.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Dec 11, 2018 20:58:28 GMT
We also have access to Eilish, granted his dispel is on an 11 inch bubble, but you still have to respect it. Doesn't work on Morv1 anyway. She can just take 1d3 damage to keep any upkeep spell in play when its dispelled. doh, you are right.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 11, 2018 22:19:48 GMT
I played armored corps into Zaal2/statues, and it went well. He doesn't really boost their power, so they don't just wreck man-o-war despite being somewhat hard-hitting natively. I think Butcher3 AC would work pretty well into some of these matchups where you want RFP. Surprised by that/might be a misplay
Zaal can absolute boost their power if you can't make progress on the attrition. He has the Hordes version of Arcane might (Called Aura of Power). His win condition is getting immortals in range (and even better Haakar or a Guardian) and then start spending souls and his focus like mad to get multiple boosted pow 13 or 15s (Novitate) into you. I had the right package with Vlad2 (Victor, Bombers) and I still couldn't chew through enough to not get out attritioned and jammed up by all the immortals.
Butcher 3 works but the main challenge is the statutes. He can kill one but has to avoid the second being in range to charge him and just ruin his day.
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Post by jdeckert on Dec 11, 2018 22:38:32 GMT
I played armored corps into Zaal2/statues, and it went well. He doesn't really boost their power, so they don't just wreck man-o-war despite being somewhat hard-hitting natively. I think Butcher3 AC would work pretty well into some of these matchups where you want RFP. Surprised by that/might be a misplay
Zaal can absolute boost their power if you can't make progress on the attrition. He has the Hordes version of Arcane might (Called Aura of Power). His win condition is getting immortals in range (and even better Haakar or a Guardian) and then start spending souls and his focus like mad to get multiple boosted pow 13 or 15s (Novitate) into you. I had the right package with Vlad2 (Victor, Bombers) and I still couldn't chew through enough to not get out attritioned and jammed up by all the immortals.
Butcher 3 works but the main challenge is the statutes. He can kill one but has to avoid the second being in range to charge him and just ruin his day.
Sorry, should have been more specific. He doesn't boost the immortal's power - Aura of Power is a boost, not an extra die, so it really doesn't do anything for their damage when they are going into Man-o-war. It does for Hakaar and AGs on their second/bought attacks, but I'm okay with them getting committed to try and kill MoW. You might have had the right package with Vlad2, but he doesn't have RFP which is exactly what we're talking about
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Post by sand20go on Dec 11, 2018 23:10:13 GMT
Surprised by that/might be a misplay
Zaal can absolute boost their power if you can't make progress on the attrition. He has the Hordes version of Arcane might (Called Aura of Power). His win condition is getting immortals in range (and even better Haakar or a Guardian) and then start spending souls and his focus like mad to get multiple boosted pow 13 or 15s (Novitate) into you. I had the right package with Vlad2 (Victor, Bombers) and I still couldn't chew through enough to not get out attritioned and jammed up by all the immortals.
Butcher 3 works but the main challenge is the statutes. He can kill one but has to avoid the second being in range to charge him and just ruin his day.
Sorry, should have been more specific. He doesn't boost the immortal's power - Aura of Power is a boost, not an extra die, so it really doesn't do anything for their damage when they are going into Man-o-war. It does for Hakaar and AGs on their second/bought attacks, but I'm okay with them getting committed to try and kill MoW. You might have had the right package with Vlad2, but he doesn't have RFP which is exactly what we're talking about Yes - a Butcher 3 AC list could work assuming that the SHocks can weather out the storm. But keep in mind, one Feat the Immortals are ARM 22. So 7s or 9s for the shocks to crack armor on them with a walk and swing and only 6 (max) attacks).
I think the biggest thing in that matchup is how you kill off both SG the same turn (and who Zaal has in his BG) because you don't want Butcher to eat both a retaliatory strike from the SG _AND_ on the next turn the second SG coming at him. I have found B3's main issue into Huge based models is precisely that piece trading function because of the inability to pull Huge based models.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Dec 12, 2018 5:06:02 GMT
I had the right package with Vlad2 (Victor, Bombers) and I still couldn't chew through enough to not get out attritioned and jammed up by all the immortals. Sounds like you didn't have the right package with Vlad2 then? Conquest might be a better option over victor due to the large volume of high explosive AoEs. Stick Hand of Fate on it and the POW10 blasts will start cracking ARM. Not all the time, but enough that it'll start adding up. Cheers, Dave
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Post by sand20go on Dec 12, 2018 18:05:19 GMT
I had the right package with Vlad2 (Victor, Bombers) and I still couldn't chew through enough to not get out attritioned and jammed up by all the immortals. Sounds like you didn't have the right package with Vlad2 then? Conquest might be a better option over victor due to the large volume of high explosive AoEs. Stick Hand of Fate on it and the POW10 blasts will start cracking ARM. Not all the time, but enough that it'll start adding up. Cheers, Dave Well I think I did. Bombers for Hand of Fate hot swapped to Demo Corp to wreck SG on feat turn. Victor lit a LOT of immortals on Fire and that is dice -5 to kill and overall in most match ups victor better than connie with Vlad2.
Yes, one Can fully tune up a list for a match up (but that isn't the game we should play). Overall the Vlad2 list is fine....it just has a hard time chewing through things for a meaningful attrition advantage when they can bring back 6 things a turn.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 13, 2018 2:28:20 GMT
Yeah, I dunno about AC in Immortals...
Your high attack volume stuff doesn't really hit hard enough to kill them and your hard hitting stuff doesn't have enough attack volume. Combine that with how easy it is for the list to counter STs and Tankers (Incorp into back arcs, boost damage rolls) and it's a pretty bad time.
If your opponent is just hitting STs in the front, then they don't understand the tools the list gives them.
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