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Post by profdikweed on Nov 8, 2018 11:49:07 GMT
Alrighty my fellow kriels, with the new Judy with the new exemplar hotness walking up to the plate, what are going to change to deal with this change in the meta?
The ones im seeing are HR+judy with some form of medium base spam. Unfortunately the flavour of medium base drastically changes what needs to be done
HR and the cinerators actually encourages us to take our new beast, the brawler. With chain weapons and snacking, this guy is effectively anti cinerators. One of these guys should be able to alpha one unit and clear our majoroty of them while the rest of your army focusses elsewhere.
Bastions on the other hand shutdown things like champions, bears and other high impact single models. Two defensive strikes from bastions have a high chance of wiping out a bear, and champions charging in may have to spead that damage out if you want to ensure theres enough there afterwards.
And this is before taking into account the judy. This guy throws out some serious ranged damage. Clouds can shutdown it somewhat, but it will happily spray through its own models to hit its enemies. Double HoF means those sprays will hit, and do some serioud damage
Whats our thoughts? What other Menoth hotness are you seeing that is giving you troubles?
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Post by mydnight on Nov 8, 2018 12:04:58 GMT
Is it really that easy to alpha cinerators? With a cloud wall in front of them you can't even charge them. With gravus they threaten 11". HR does fine with vengers too.
Bastions die to shooting like flies though, one you see through clouds.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Nov 8, 2018 12:37:15 GMT
Madrak1 with a glacier king and mist speaker with boosted damage rolls should do enough damage that they are not willing to spread out.
With sotn +2 cols dmg dice damage means on avarage 10 dmg per boosted roll and the are easy to hit.
Even madrak himself with a pow 15 ranged attack with ricocet should do list of damage.
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mhean
Demo Gamer
Posts: 16
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Post by mhean on Nov 8, 2018 14:29:43 GMT
I made up a list that "theoricly" can take HR with one or 2 judicator. This should need more testing, but on paper it seems nice. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0a020rfmfI6G0ki-iTbK0b0cTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Gunnbjorn 1] Captain Gunnbjorn [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Glacier King [35] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Why it should work : Gunnbjorn has a feat that basicly says "your judi won't do shit for one turn". He can threaten shield wall thanks to his gun and crit throw, has access to easy magical RFP and has a super good assination projection with the glacier king combined to the mist speaker. I choose band of heroes for easy RFP. This guy is the anchor of the list, being able to throw pow 16 shoots at the judi or medium base and RFP them thanks to explosivo. He threaten more on melee than the judi with 11". I also have a bomber, doing the same thing has the glacier king but for cheaper (and not has good sadly). In two turns of shooting, they kill the judicator. For unit, the northkin stone is here for the glacier king but also help the champions. While in Band of Heroes, they still are northkin models, and can hit really hard. Behind a wall they will be a pain to deal with. Fennblades are the most "meh" in this particular match up, but they still are a really good tarpit unit usefull in a lot of situations. This would need testing of course, but I think it's quite an interresting list on paper at least.
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Post by grimgor on Nov 8, 2018 14:58:44 GMT
I tried kolgrimma in Sotn several times it doesn't work. The judi doesn't shoot one turn, but it isn't enough, with his 2 range 14 shoots he takes almost 60% life of a beast and the spray completly destroy champions, bears, anything. I'm not sure that RFP can be a great answer, if he have errants he would have anyway a feat. I don't think madrak is especially doing great into it, all your champions would die easy and the +2 def is useless, the only thing that madrak do is that your list is tough steady, i think i would prefer madrak 3 atleast you should have a 4+ tough. I like the mhean idea, i think it's certainly the best thing we could do, i was thinking about a PoD gunnjborn, but PoD is really bad on scenario... But where can we drop this gunnjborn list except hr judicator ? Harbinger is too a big problem for trolls
Edit : i remenber that HR can play visgoth, so he would have 2 shield guard that can come back on the feat and vassal mechanik, so the shooting way can be wrong...
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mhean
Demo Gamer
Posts: 16
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Post by mhean on Nov 8, 2018 15:23:51 GMT
RFP is important not for the errant version but for the cinerators/bastion or vengers version. You can also win against Harbinger cause you have a lot of shooting with the list (even behind a wall she is not safe).
Gunnbjorn is pretty good into most gunlines, and dependings on the table you can always try a caster kill. You can play him into most warmachine, and probably some hordes too (avoiding trolls and hard anti gunlines). He is not super meta but still good enough to give it a try.
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Post by grimgor on Nov 8, 2018 15:33:31 GMT
RFP is important not for the errant version but for the cinerators/bastion or vengers version. You can also win against Harbinger cause you have a lot of shooting with the list (even behind a wall she is not safe). Gunnbjorn is pretty good into most gunlines, and dependings on the table you can always try a caster kill. You can play him into most warmachine, and probably some hordes too (avoiding trolls and hard anti gunlines). He is not super meta but still good enough to give it a try. I will certainly try it, one of my regular opponent play hr and harbinger... hr judicator with errants and visgoth i think it's the best version against trolls.
Kolgrima doesn't work, i was thinking about grim 4 huges bases he seems to have a lot good matchups on others things too.
I don't own a glacier king maybe i will try this kind of list with 2 bombers, and i like gunnjborn too I played it a lot in PoD list but i think it's too hard to play it more with this SR and the tools we have in this theme
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Post by danks on Nov 8, 2018 17:32:43 GMT
I mean, if you really want to tech for high reclaimer, you could play horgle2. No blast...beasts are immune to fire. Seems like a good start.
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Post by grimgor on Nov 8, 2018 18:13:37 GMT
I mean, if you really want to tech for high reclaimer, you could play horgle2. No blast...beasts are immune to fire. Seems like a good start. That should be good if the list that could handle HR judicator could handle others things in the meta. What do you think about it with your pairing actually ?
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Post by danks on Nov 8, 2018 18:23:25 GMT
Which pairing madrak/Borka2 or Kolgrima/Borka2? I dont really have a solid answer yet, but I will say I brought kolgs specifically for menoth/judis in round one of the invitational. It worked decently well there. If it were my madrak pairing I would have been wrecked as I don’t think that pair has much game into harby fm specifically.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 8, 2018 21:38:11 GMT
Glacier King with either Kolgrima or Gunny is pretty awesome in general but you're saying that she can't beat it? She can shut down the shooting entirely on the feat turn and has the clouds still work, right? I don't see why not, so what am I missing? So let's see, HR can't block LOS to a huge base with his own clouds, so all we need is magic damage guns to get past the Choir. Gunny can cast Explosivo on the GK and use the Mist Speaker on the Bomber. All shots should hit DEF 8 and both beasts can boost all attacks with Whelps for the fury. So we've got 5x boosted POW 16s if the Elder chooses +2 Cold damage. That's a total of 35 damage with average rolls, more than half of its boxes. It might also be good to use the Mist Speaker on Gunny himself sometimes if he can sneak a good shot with a possible crit past the clouds and onto some Cinerators or something. I do think that mhean list is pretty clever, especially since it should have a pretty wide array of drops. I think the tricks will be a) to get the Champs and Fenns past the clouds so they can deal with the grunts and b) to not fall behind on attrition after your feat because HR can really grind. I am concerned though by the lack of the Runebearer for Gunny and Whelps for that much fury. While the Bomber is great, honestly this is not going to kill a colossal with guns very quickly anyway. The Champs are more likely to close that out. Gunny needs Far Strike less than some other warlocks do. I think what we need might simply be some Kriel Warriors to take the first wave of Menite charges before the Champs and Fenns go in. So I'm looking at this change: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0a02fmjqfI6G6G0o0li-iTbK0b0cTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Gunnbjorn 1] Captain Gunnbjorn [+28] - Glacier King [35] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Kriel Warriors (max) [11] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5]
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Post by grimgor on Nov 8, 2018 22:12:39 GMT
I like too the mhean list. But the hr list i used to face have visgoth and vassal mekanik, so he have 2 shield that can come back on his feat and he can repair his judicator.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 9, 2018 4:18:04 GMT
Play Koldgrannie. She turns off the Judi for a turn and BoH really screws over HR feat. Just practice it. Its not a mega sew in Grannies favor, but the tools are there.
Gunjorn in BoH is also a good shot. His feat delivers his army into gunlines and BoH does not need much support outside of that, especially with a strong shooting BG that can take some serious chunks out of the Judi from afar. Glacier King and Bomber should be able to at the least cripple Judi after an explosivo Volley, then you can feat and do it again to finish the Job. Once Judi dies, mopping up the rest of the army should be pretty straightforward.
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mhean
Demo Gamer
Posts: 16
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Post by mhean on Nov 9, 2018 9:15:08 GMT
I like too the mhean list. But the hr list i used to face have visgoth and vassal mekanik, so he have 2 shield that can come back on his feat and he can repair his judicator. Explosivo will RFP the shield guards, and can swapped easily by gunny I like the idea of including some whelps, so here is new version with this in mind : conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0a020rfmfI6G6R0o63680ki-iTbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Gunnbjorn 1] Captain Gunnbjorn [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Glacier King [35] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Troll Whelps [4] Kriel Warriors (max) [11] - Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (1) [2] - Kriel Warrior Standard & Piper [3] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)]
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 9, 2018 15:54:23 GMT
mhean Yeah, maybe the Bomber is needed, but Swamp Gobbers would be better than a Caber, and I still worry about a minimum stone covering this many models. The Fenns could be worthwhile without the aura if they can kill enough grunts, but the Kriels need to bank more on being a little harder to remove. Unless weapon masters make that futile anyway...
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