Vlad 1 list (WGC) help!

karasutengu
Baby's First Wargame

Posts: 6

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 3, 2018 7:54:02 GMT

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Post by karasutengu on Nov 3, 2018 7:54:02 GMT

Khador - Vlad 1 WGC

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand

2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28

- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)

- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)

- Berserker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)

- Berserker - PC: 8

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0

Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand

Hellow! Kahdor players!

A few months ago I heard some advice here. But unfortunately,I haven't played Warmachine in recent months...

Now I have time to play games. So I recently ordered some models. This list is from the models I have and the latest ones I ordered.

I wonder if this list is good for beginners. Once I heard that WGC is good when I use Vlad1, I made a list like this. I want to know how to write this list and if there is anything else I need to fix on this list. Because I have never used WGC (but it was really fun to use S&P and Rocketeer together! 4D6!)

And in addition, these are my questions.

* I recently ordered Marauder arm parts. But the Berserker is cheaper than Marauder and the performance seems similar...What are the merits of Marauder? Because people seem to use Marauder more and I wonder.

* I have two Mortar Crew. So I put two on the list, and if I have to correct this part, I would be grateful if I could tell you how to fix it.

* Kayazy Eliminators good on this list? It's because people don't seem to use it like this.

And...I wrote this thread using a translator. Because I am not good at English. I am really sorry if it is hard to read.
Please give me a lot of advice!

Soul Samurai
Moderator

Trying to find time to paint!

Posts: 3,724

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 3, 2018 8:26:18 GMT

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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 3, 2018 8:26:18 GMT

Before the MOW CID, Marauders were 10 points and MAT 7 while Berserkers were 9 points and MAT 5; for one extra point you gained so much from moving to a Marauder: +2 MAT, +2 ARM, extra dice against huge-based models, option of P+S 20 slam, not blowing up when spending focus...

But now Marauders are 11 points and Berserkers are 8, and Berserkers have gone up to MAT 6. So Berserkers are much more competitive than they used to be compared to Marauders. You still risk exploding if you spend focus though (and if you're not going to spend focus a Marauder can often do more thanks to it's combo-smite), and you don't get that extra damage dice against huge bases, so you're not getting as much work out of a Berserker as a Marauder (at least not in as many situations). But it's three points less; that can be a big deal.

Anyway, good luck, remember to have fun!

Last Edit: Nov 3, 2018 8:26:41 GMT by Soul Samurai

kovnikninehouse
Junior Strategist

Posts: 296

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 3, 2018 11:53:10 GMT via mobile

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Post by kovnikninehouse on Nov 3, 2018 11:53:10 GMT

The Eliminators are great but you can only have one unit of them in a Winter guard command list as your merc unit. So if I were you i would drop the second unit to upgrade one Beserker to a Marauder and add a gobber tinker for a solo that can sit on a flag

kovnikninehouse
Junior Strategist

Posts: 296

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 3, 2018 12:00:37 GMT via mobile

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Post by kovnikninehouse on Nov 3, 2018 12:00:37 GMT

As for your questions 2 mortar crews are fantastic with S&P.

If you have the points the Marauder is much better than the Beserker and will get more work done and scare all the huge bases out there but yes the beserker is better after the cid. Although if you have the points Marauders are still better

Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 3, 2018 14:09:22 GMT

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 3, 2018 14:09:22 GMT

Vlad 1 is great with 9 rockets, and 9 rockets (+18 riflemen, +2 mortars) plus at least 4 heavy warjacks asks two nice questions — can you deal with all my shooting, and if you can are you still able to deal with 4 SPD 8 heavy warjacks who can charge you for free (and will be benefits from S&P).

As someone who’s played a fair amount of Vlad 1 and a fair amount of WGK rocket spam, and can endorse going down this path. Some advice:

- You can’t take 2 units of eliminators. Eliminators are naturally good, but max you can take is 1 unit. kovnikninehouse offers good advice above.
- Alternatively, I think you’ll benefit more if you drop the Beserkers and Eliminators to fit in Marauders and Kodiaks. Your list lacks pathfinder and a Kodiak solves a lot of problems for you. This isn’t necessary, but I think you’ll like it if you try it. The Marauder and Kodiak have a very nice synergy with rockets in that they knock stuff down and throw them, and knocked down models are not engaged in melee so your rockets can shoot at them without worrying about taking the “fire into combat” penalty.
- Managing so many models is difficult if you’re out of practice. If you are playing on a clock then use the CRA available to the WGRC in order to reduce the number of attacks you need to make. Prioritize targets with combined attacks over taking every every attack individually.
- The Mortars are quite good with Vlad and you won’t be disappointed.

karasutengu
Baby's First Wargame

Posts: 6

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 4, 2018 14:41:10 GMT

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Post by karasutengu on Nov 4, 2018 14:41:10 GMT

I appreciate all your advice! Thank you so much! Khadoran Kommanders are best advisor!

I took your advice and revised the list. Kodiak&Marauder and Kodiak&Berserker

War Room Army

Khador - Vlad 1 WGK K&M

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Marauder - PC: 11

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
---

GENERATED : 11/04/2018 22:57:36
BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
War Room Army

Khador - Vlad 1 WGK K&B

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Berserker - PC: 8

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
---

GENERATED : 11/04/2018 22:58:12
BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06

I thought of these two lists. I like Kodiak,pathfinder&+2 run,It is cool. But I have only one Kodiak...two Kodiak is better than one?
I also have a question about Berserk,Berserk is good rule? I thought it would be nice to fight with infantry. But People don't say this rule...

And I want to know WGK is how to fight against annoying solos and infantry killers. I look at other lists and they look very scary...

michael
Moderator

Posts: 2,664

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 4, 2018 15:47:40 GMT via mobile

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Post by michael on Nov 4, 2018 15:47:40 GMT

Berserkers still aren’t worth taking. They reached absolute minimum baseline functionality when they dropped to PC 8 and gained MAT 6, sure. But Unstable completely screws with one of the core pieces of warjack functionality (spending focus) in exchange for...nothing. Wild unreliability? Like, if you have a warjack that can’t do the basic job of a warjack, then it had better have some fantastic ability or mitigating factor offsetting that drawback. PC 8 isn’t it.

Switch to a Maurader, Kodiak, Juggernaut, or heck even a Gun Carriage somewhere instead of a Berserker.

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Grolar - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)

Winter Guard Gun Carriage - PC: 17

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 0

Last Edit: Nov 4, 2018 15:51:59 GMT by michael

michael
Moderator

Posts: 2,664

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 4, 2018 16:16:44 GMT via mobile

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Post by michael on Nov 4, 2018 16:16:44 GMT

In case you were wondering how that list works:

Signs & Portents Boundless Charge Gun Carriage knocks down opposing warcaster from extremely far away. Rockets and Rifle Corps shoot it to death.

If that somehow fails, you try again next turn with the Grolar and/or Marauder.

Last Edit: Nov 4, 2018 17:11:55 GMT by michael

Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 4, 2018 18:09:21 GMT via mobile

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 4, 2018 18:09:21 GMT

Nov 4, 2018 14:41:10 GMT karasutengu said:

I appreciate all your advice! Thank you so much! Khadoran Kommanders are best advisor!

I took your advice and revised the list. Kodiak&Marauder and Kodiak&Berserker

War Room Army

Khador - Vlad 1 WGK K&M

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Marauder - PC: 11

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
---

GENERATED : 11/04/2018 22:57:36
BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
War Room Army

Khador - Vlad 1 WGK K&B

Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Berserker - PC: 8

Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4

Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand
---

GENERATED : 11/04/2018 22:58:12
BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06

I thought of these two lists. I like Kodiak,pathfinder&+2 run,It is cool. But I have only one Kodiak...two Kodiak is better than one?
I also have a question about Berserk,Berserk is good rule? I thought it would be nice to fight with infantry. But People don't say this rule...

And I want to know WGK is how to fight against annoying solos and infantry killers. I look at other lists and they look very scary...

I like both of these lists. Try them both and let us know how you do. I am more bullish than michael is on the Berserker chassis. They do work for any caster that has a native buff but doesn’t want to dish out focus (so, Vlad 1, Sorscha 3 for starters). Berserk is good for mulching infantry.

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

Vlad 1 list (WGC) help! Nov 5, 2018 8:34:49 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Nov 5, 2018 8:34:49 GMT

A few observations from running a (fairly different) Vlad1 WGK list:

1 - A pure rockets list is vulnerable to some fairly widely available counter technology:

(a) Stealth - I really recommend adding a Spriggan to the list as one of your jacks. It gives you a means to target some stealth models, which can be invaluable. Scattering AoEs just don't have the same potential. What you want to make sure of is that you can target a warcaster/warlock with your rockets as a possible assassination path to victory. Being able to remove Stealth really helps with that. It also helps deal with troublesome solos if they have Stealth. My battle group for Vlad1 in WGK at the moment is Spriggan + Juggernaut + 2 Berserkers (my list also has a Gun Carriage - you could swap the Gun Carriage to a Marauder and upgrade both Berserkers to a Marauder, or something similar);

(b) Numbers - the Winter Guard rocket is only P+S6 on the blast damage, and doesn't get the benefit for Brutal Damage on the blasts either. Taking out large numbers of enemy models (before they engage) isn't that easy. Difficult to address this with a pure Rifle Corps list. I always suggest having a unit of max WGI with the UA as well. The sprays can be incredible under Vlad1.

There are also less common but still possible counter-tech. Anti-ranged abilities (such as Wind Wall or Wind Storm) or incorporeal. Less you can do about those without fairly substantial rewrites.

2 - Berserkers are... OK. With the right caster. In the right circumstances.

But for 8 points, you shouldn't really expect more. You have to understand how to use them. They are not going to go in and take out heavies, even with the buffs Vlad provide. But they are lots of ARM and boxes for their points, and under S&P can seriously threaten light jacks (which cost about the same). The weaker heavies (models like the Ironclad) can also lose out when piece trading with them - a Berserker isn't likely to destroy an Ironclad, but if it gets the charge under Vlad's feat and using S&P, it has decent odds of taking out some columns, possible including the one dangerous weapon.

Berserkers really benefit from Vlad1's feat, as the free charge with no Focus cost is about the best case scenario for their use - you get a charge attack, another initial attack and then use your Power Up Focus for another attack.

And don't be afraid to use them then lose them. You should not be relying on Berserkers lasting very long.

I also have a question about Berserk,Berserk is good rule? I thought it would be nice to fight with infantry. But People don't say this rule...

Berserk is never a rule to rely upon. There are two problems

(i) it is rare to have that many targets within melee range of the Berserker. Often the initial attacks will be enough to deal with everything you can hit anyway;

(ii) you cannot rely on Berserk triggering, because it requires the Berserker to hit and kill its target. Against warrior models (the ideal target), MAT6, even with S&P, will miss more than you would like.

And I want to know WGK is how to fight against annoying solos and infantry killers. I look at other lists and they look very scary...

Given the nature of the list - the answer is shoot them! Spriggan for anti-stealth can help. Try to land mortar shots on/near them if you can. Eliminators are also excellent solo hunters.

Depending on the solo and the scenario you are playing, using a jack to take out a key solo can be worth it. I have sometimes sacrificed a Berserker by charging it into a vulnerable position, but letting me get rid of 5/6 point solo which was preventing me scoring. It was worth losing the 8 point jack to gain a scenario advantage. Under S&P, most jacks have decent odds of killing solos.