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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 30, 2018 10:12:49 GMT
I was tinkering with list building again and wondering about using Bog Trog Ambushers in Power of Dhunia for scenario presence. I think that could potentially be worthwhile because Ambush is just that strong. The next question is naturally why I wouldn't just play in Storm of the North for Battle Bears instead. The only answer I came up with in the few minutes that I pondered it was Mulg. So we're looking for warlocks who both a) don't mind spending 8-14 points on a Minion unit and b) do want to channel spells or maybe just really want Arcane Vortex. I think that pretty much narrows it down to Kolgrima and Grim 1. Here's a rough draft for each: conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bj10r9Djp0h0jjq2QfJ6Rk5jY0l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia [Kolgrima 1] Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Bog Trog Ambushers (max) [13] - Void Leech (1) [1] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0b590r9Djp0h0jjqfI7d6Rk50l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia [Grim 1] Grim Angus [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Bog Trog Ambushers (max) [13] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Any thoughts on this? |
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Sept 30, 2018 13:24:33 GMT
I really wanted Farrow brigands to be good in pod, but haven't unlocked them in the very few games I had time to try them in. This certainly contributes more to scenario than that idea. It also encourages squishy armies to bunch up, which PoD will love. My first thought was that you could have an Earthborn for that price and it is a great scenario piece, but my second thoughts said that they are differently strong, and I have concluded that it seems worth testing. You should probably test it against a similar Storm list, also, though, because bears provide most of the benefits of trogs but trade the body count and footprint for power and durability.
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Sept 30, 2018 18:44:55 GMT
How did you narrow it down to only gramma and grim1?
Grim2 and Mortality is a spell that both wants to be channeled and benefits a minion unit.
Calandra's spellcrossed benefits minions too, and Befuddle is good to arcnode around.
Ragnor's pulverizor can go on minions and he has 2 spells that like mulg.
What made you eliminate these warlocks with Bog Trogs?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 30, 2018 19:02:02 GMT
Now that I think about it, a good next step to consider is why POD for Mulg with Grim or Kolgrima would be a compelling choice over anything else. I think that's easier to answer with Kolgrima. Her list could be tweaked to have multiple resistances to spells, charges, and ranged attacks. I'm pretty sure there's a way to build it that would be pretty strong against most of what Cryx is playing as well as much of Circle, Cygnar, Crucible Guard and maybe Skorne.
The weakness of this list is a low volume of attacks. So a good pairing might be Madrak 1 or 2 in Northkin or Band.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 30, 2018 19:10:20 GMT
How did you narrow it down to only gramma and grim1? Grim2 and Mortality is a spell that both wants to be channeled and benefits a minion unit. Calandra's spellcrossed benefits minions too, and Befuddle is good to arcnode around. Ragnor's pulverizor can go on minions and he has 2 spells that like mulg. What made you eliminate these warlocks with Bog Trogs? Grim 2 is a possibility, I just don't know him very well. Calandra's feat does not work for Minions, but I'm not sure that would definitely stop her from running a minimum unit. Pulverizer is not going to be placed on a Bog Trog and he wants FF models that are tough enough to benefit from his feat. He does have two decent offensive spells but neither are as compelling as Mortality or Winter's Tide. I suppose that a minimum unit might be worth a look like it is for Calandra, but I think he is pushed even more toward Northkin if you want to put him in a scenario list. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 30, 2018 19:17:22 GMT
For Ragnor, I think that something like this is just plain better. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0GfLjn9Djq6G6R6Oj20U0li-iZiZi_iTbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Ragnor 1] Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Troll Whelps [4] Trollkin Champion Hero [5] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Pyg Lookouts (min) [7] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] |
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Sept 30, 2018 23:31:20 GMT
Interesting ideas. I've never even considered ragnor in SotN. I considered Farrow Valkyrie with him, because I thought pylverizer on one of them would be cute. But on Valka maybe?
Imagine if we had a command attachment to make them faction. Brak Oathkeeper. Fluff would be that he witnesses the oaths sworn by outsiders... what was it called? Kith something? Abilities, maybe grant Tough as a star action? And something not too crazy...we wouldn't want Trogs in every troll army now.
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Oct 1, 2018 0:20:08 GMT
As long as we are bringing up other warlocks, Grissel1 would be interesting. Calamity benefits everyone, and she can hand out boundless charge and a bonus attack to give a beast an effective +2 fury in addition to the pathfinder and threat range. This way you can have Rage and (pseudo) Rush at the same time! The feat is a bit lackluster, I will grant, but the thing I miss most is the control range cacophony, to be honest. The other two effects wound up being was in large part, but that one was money.
Heck, you could stack Rush and Lanyssa's Hunter's Mark so Mulg could charge 13". Not threaten, but advance 23". Basically, if he is on the centerline then nothing can be safe anywhere near your half of the table until after the trogs ambush, since their threat ranges overlap by 5". My quick estimate is that anything the trogs can't charge that is less than 10.3" forward of Mulg can be charged by Mulg if you can land that Hunter's Mark.
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 1, 2018 4:11:57 GMT
You're right! Grissel1, I totally forgot about calamity.
Bog Trogs actually have a fair MAT/POW. Too bad they can't pull medium bases.
I haven't run any calaulations on damage output between Gramma vs Grissel or Grim1/2. High armor feels like gramma's the winner. Single wound guarantees death.
Has anyone been successful with gramma feating and pushing things into ambush range?
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Oct 1, 2018 11:21:14 GMT
Now that I think about it, a good next step to consider is why POD for Mulg with Grim or Kolgrima would be a compelling choice over anything else. I think that's easier to answer with Kolgrima. Her list could be tweaked to have multiple resistances to spells, charges, and ranged attacks. I'm pretty sure there's a way to build it that would be pretty strong against most of what Cryx is playing as well as much of Circle, Cygnar, Crucible Guard and maybe Skorne. The weakness of this list is a low volume of attacks. So a good pairing might be Madrak 1 or 2 in Northkin or Band. Oh. I never even thought to realize Pulverizer worked on Minions. *eyes ninja pig and the scary snake* I've been using brigands in all my PoD lists because I simply can't play an all beast army well, and I used Idrians A LOT in my Mercenary days so the skill carry-over is pretty close and helpful. It's a failing, I acknowledge it, moving on. The Bog trogs are interesting, but. They all die, pretty trivially. And they hit like half boiled noodles. Is there ability to ambush and potentially contest (because I'm not willing to concede that to the papery little buggers just yet) of any conceivable benefit to forgoing Mulg and running in SotN. Everyone sees how powerful that list is and anything has to be weighed against it to be intellectually honest. I would like to see it played, or hear about it at least, but it wouldn't be me playing it. I'm not dismissing it, I just don't see enough value to warrant it either. |
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 1, 2018 14:59:13 GMT
Now that I think about it, a good next step to consider is why POD for Mulg with Grim or Kolgrima would be a compelling choice over anything else. I think that's easier to answer with Kolgrima. Her list could be tweaked to have multiple resistances to spells, charges, and ranged attacks. Is there ability to ambush and potentially contest (because I'm not willing to concede that to the papery little buggers just yet) of any conceivable benefit to forgoing Mulg and running in SotN. Everyone sees how powerful that list is and anything has to be weighed against it to be intellectually honest. I would like to see it played, or hear about it at least, but it wouldn't be me playing it. I'm not dismissing it, I just don't see enough value to warrant it either. So running Bog Trogs in SotN? Maybe with gramma because her spell means 10 points of guaranteed damage. But without Mulg, she needs to be far forward for the spell to be a factor. I think there is so much natural synergy in SotN, that it will be hardpressed to run a full minion unit, and a low pow minion ambusher is only redundant. In KC or PoD however, the benefits of an ambush threat actually help, and could be seen as a reasonable trade for a beast or troll unit. |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Oct 1, 2018 17:06:56 GMT
So running Bog Trogs in SotN? Oh god no, I'm saying does Bogs with Mulg contribute to a greater list than Kolgrimma in SotN. I personally don't see it, but I'm happy to be wrong. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 1, 2018 18:00:37 GMT
So running Bog Trogs in SotN? Oh god no, I'm saying does Bogs with Mulg contribute to a greater list than Kolgrimma in SotN. I personally don't see it, but I'm happy to be wrong. Still, that's the central question of this thread, so by all means, have at it. |
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mazog
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Post by mazog on Oct 2, 2018 0:17:45 GMT
Band of heroes would also enjoy having the enemy bunch up to avoid ambushing. Sigh. More models to buy... I haven't even finished painting my Northkin!
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