|
|
Post by yourmumrang on Apr 13, 2017 23:09:56 GMT
Hey all! Having a devil of a time coming up with 3 lists and would like to dojo with you here as if i don't get this on paper i wont sleep.
Here is my current 3 list pairing - would love some thoughts on the lists themselves and what matchups they cover...
Thagrosh1 Oracles
Typhon
Carnivean x2
Seraph
Naga
Forsaken x2
Shepard x2
Spell Martyr x2
Hex Hunters and Bayal
Abby2 Oracles
Proteus
Ravagore x2
Neraph x2
Seraph
Naga
Forsaken x2
Hellion
Succubus
And finally the tried and tested...
Lylyth3
Typhon
Carnivean
Seraph
Bolt Thrower
Naga
Succubus
Anyssa
Shepherd x2
Forsaken x2
Hellmouth
|
|
Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288 
|
Post by Whiskie on Apr 13, 2017 23:53:52 GMT
The thing that immediately jumps out at me is that I feel you're better off playing Lylyth3 in Oracles and leaving Thags out of theme. Thagrosh1 benefits from out of theme models far more than Lylyth3 does. For example the Thagrosh1 list I'm playing in 3 list is:
Thagrosh1
- Typhon
- Azrael
- Proteus
- Carnivean
2x Hellmouth
Forsaken
2x Shepherd
Swamp Gobber Chef
Spell Martyr
Thags1 can stand to play out of theme a lot of the time due in part to his Feat. While normally being out of theme can mean playing anywhere between 8-20 points down compared to your opponent Thags' ability to Feat back any warbeast he wants can really help offset that initial disadvantage. Sacrificing Typhon or Azrael early and bringing them back with the Feat can be a huge swing as those beasts require a large investment from the opponent to remove under Death Shroud.
Thags1 loves almost all of our character beasts and does exceedingly well with Hellmouths. On the other hand Lylyth loves Typhon and can make use of a Hellmouth but that old list with Typhon + Carnivean + Seraph has become sort of dated in my opinion as the metagame has shifted in such a way that Lylyth needs more "teeth" in her army than 2.5 heavies can provide (Seraph is half a heavy for combat purposes). I don't know if you own the models to play the triple Angelius + Carnivean variant of Oracles Lylyth3 but if you do you should strongly consider giving it a spin. It plays into Cygnar a lot better than the Typhon + Carnivean variant does and has incredible assassination potential.
I like your Abby2 list. Ravagores are an unusual sight with her but have potential to catch opponents totally off guard. I'm always a little skeptical of Neraphs with anyone that isn't Fyanna2 but if it's been working for you so far then more power to you!
|
|
|
|
Post by yourmumrang on Apr 14, 2017 7:34:32 GMT
The Abby2 plays tag teams of a Ravagore and Neraph. Ravagore shoots and Neraph finishes odd and sprints away. Then in feat turn the Ravs are scary and 2 Ravagore shots keep many casters sweating.
I have found the L3 version is just too solid. Sprays with Wraithbane are just too good at assasination with the amount of shield guards I see. I actually uses to run L3 with Angelius' before Tom Guan made it cool and preferred the easy assasination of sprays. Would be interested to know why you think the Angels are better - genuinely.
I am not sure i like the Thags one. That's my main issue as it feels like I'm just fitting it into Oracles because i can.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanX on Apr 14, 2017 8:59:58 GMT
I like Wiskies suggestion for Thagrosh. I would really like a Naga, 2ND forsaken and an extra spell martyr. I think...
Drop carnivian and a shepherd, Gain Naga, forsaken, 2 deathstalkers, Can't work out how to get the extra spell martyr though...
|
|
|
|
Post by yourmumrang on Apr 14, 2017 9:46:56 GMT
The list i was looking at for Thags out of theme is...
Thags
Proteus
Typhon
Scythean
Seraph
Deathstalker x2
Shepherd x2
Spell Martyr x2
Forsaken x2
Hellmouth x2
But I'm not sure. I feel like the Thags is there to break bricks and am not sure this can....
|
|
Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by Whiskie on Apr 14, 2017 13:54:52 GMT
The Abby2 plays tag teams of a Ravagore and Neraph. Ravagore shoots and Neraph finishes odd and sprints away. Then in feat turn the Ravs are scary and 2 Ravagore shots keep many casters sweating. I have found the L3 version is just too solid. Sprays with Wraithbane are just too good at assasination with the amount of shield guards I see. I actually uses to run L3 with Angelius' before Tom Guan made it cool and preferred the easy assasination of sprays. Would be interested to know why you think the Angels are better - genuinely. I am not sure i like the Thags one. That's my main issue as it feels like I'm just fitting it into Oracles because i can. Cool, I like your idea of Ravagores and Neraphs tagteaming in theory. I'll have to give it a try myself eventually... there are so many things I want to try but don't have time to! Like you I've played the Typhon + Carnivean version of Lylyth3 a ton. It's incredibly solid without a doubt. It's the only list that I've ever been able to take games off of WTC players with so I don't doubt its power. The problem is that there are an ever growing number of match ups where having only two combat capable heavies in the form of Typhon and the Carnivean just isn't enough. Stryker1 Storm Division is the epitome of this in my experience. With ten Storm Lances, a Stormwall (soon to be Hurricane  ), unit of Stormblades and Firefly Typhon and the Carni just can't be everywhere they need to be at once. Annyssa can help tackle one unit of Lances if she's given Wraithbane every turn but the list just feels stretched too thin. Also like you I ran the Angelius build with Lylyth3 before it became the new hotness. The conclusion I came to at the time was the same - sprays were better than boosted POW12's. However what's changed since is that Oracles of Annihilation gives the Angelius version teeth that it didn't have before. 18-20 free points lets you take an entire extra heavy - triple Angelius + Carnivean is a lot more "oopmph". It's arguably better at assassination sometimes. Lylyth can Feat and target Shield Guards with her shots to stop them from blocking your attacks. Then you go to town with the Angels, Seraph, Carnivean spray and everything else which is more than enough to end most casters. You can also just stationary models that are intervening between your Angels and the opponent's caster and then charge with multiple POW14 armor piercing attacks. It's enough to kill any Warcaster but Karchev. Warlocks are obviously a bit more tricky. As for your Thags1 list that's out of theme I like it. Since you already have a dedicated brick breaker in your trio in the form of Abby2 you can get by on fewer than 4 combat heavies. It's also really nice to be able to play a pair of Deathstalkers and Hellmouths which seem to have virtually disappeared from Legion lists since Oracles of Annihilation came out. |
|
), unit of Stormblades and Firefly Typhon and the Carni just can't be everywhere they need to be at once. Annyssa can help tackle one unit of Lances if she's given Wraithbane every turn but the list just feels stretched too thin.