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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 13, 2017 2:06:28 GMT
Would anyone be willing to try an unofficial, HIGHLY experimental "casual" tourney format called "Voyager?"
Voyager is:
-ADR casters only.
-FA Cap (FA: U goes to 3, anything defined as FA: 4 or FA: 5 etc stays there.)
-No Painting Requirements
-Time Limits are 60 minutes for each player.
-No Rankings 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc; instead prizes get better with more wins and all 3-0 get the same, all 2-1 get the same and so on. (This idea I shamelessly stole from Malorian.)
-List building: I'm leaning toward one list with specialists over two lists.
-Game sizes: 50 or 75, maybe 35 too
... I'm leaning toward an emphasis on 50 points because that's easy enough for new players to get to yet big enough to really build a list for a coherent strategy.
As for prize support, I (or you if you try this in your neck of the woods) would have to work something out between the venue, entry fees, and my own funds, but store credit seems most likely. Is it just me or would a jar of paint be a nice price for 1 win or 2 wins, depending?
If this format goes well a few times I might try to nag Hungerford into adding it to the CID for SR 2017. You guys are welcome to try your own Voyager events, especially if you have a lot of newer players locally.
Why bother though? Admittedly, it is partly to do something a little different, but mainly this whole thing is designed to offer a less cutthroat and stressful version of tournaments and lower barriers to entry. I'm willing to bet that there are places where this would help, but what do you think?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 13, 2017 2:32:28 GMT
I'd say Timers are one of the most stressful things for a new player to be honest.
New players that want to have some fun with a list probably don't want to enter tournaments where every action you take is penalized and ultra stressful.
Up the time limit honestly.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690 
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Post by zich on Apr 13, 2017 3:01:15 GMT
60 minutes for 50p is a generous time limit that most new players should be comfortable with while still having to actually manage their time. My first tournament had something similar.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 13, 2017 3:31:38 GMT
Frankly, any sort of restriction beyond core rules seems to fly in the face of what it means to be a 'casual' player. Why restrict casters? Why change FA?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 13, 2017 3:41:01 GMT
60 minutes for 50p is a generous time limit that most new players should be comfortable with while still having to actually manage their time. My first tournament had something similar. It really isn't. It also depends on who your actual target is. New players, or Old players that want to relax a bit. |
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Apr 13, 2017 3:48:36 GMT
It is. I've been there. I've done that. It works.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 13, 2017 3:54:21 GMT
It is. I've been there. I've done that. It works. Well now I feel stupid because this is just a subjective manner. But point being in my experience I never get as much fun in a tourney as I do just playing casual. |
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Post by pangurban on Apr 13, 2017 7:19:38 GMT
Frankly, any sort of restriction beyond core rules seems to fly in the face of what it means to be a 'casual' player. Why restrict casters? Why change FA? This. FA: U to FA: 3 is probably not that big a deal, but it still restricts lists somewhat and casual players may not have extensive enough collections to easily retool lists. And the ADR restriction really doesn't lower the barrier to entry; arguably it does the opposite. If I want an event to be more casual, I just say so when I announce it. That usually suffices to tell the better players to ease up a bit. I also waive entry fees and the prizes are pretty much symbolic, not objectively valuable. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 13, 2017 10:37:25 GMT
Frankly, any sort of restriction beyond core rules seems to fly in the face of what it means to be a 'casual' player. Why restrict casters? Why change FA? This. FA: U to FA: 3 is probably not that big a deal, but it still restricts lists somewhat and casual players may not have extensive enough collections to easily retool lists. And the ADR restriction really doesn't lower the barrier to entry; arguably it does the opposite. If I want an event to be more casual, I just say so when I announce it. That usually suffices to tell the better players to ease up a bit. I also waive entry fees and the prizes are pretty much symbolic, not objectively valuable. When you're first building a collection you are not going to have 15 gun bunnies. Honestly, I think the FA cap should apply to all tourneys. They're going to have to cap FA eventually and the easiest way to do it is via Steamroller. But I don't want to derail this whole thread with another flame war over spam lists. The ADR roster only rotates every 6 months as I recall. Even if it were twice as frequent, $20 every 3 months is pennies compared to MTG in Standard. And it wouldn't even be that much, as some casters are more likely to spend more time in the roster. |
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 13, 2017 12:12:53 GMT
This. FA: U to FA: 3 is probably not that big a deal, but it still restricts lists somewhat and casual players may not have extensive enough collections to easily retool lists. And the ADR restriction really doesn't lower the barrier to entry; arguably it does the opposite. If I want an event to be more casual, I just say so when I announce it. That usually suffices to tell the better players to ease up a bit. I also waive entry fees and the prizes are pretty much symbolic, not objectively valuable. When you're first building a collection you are not going to have 15 gun bunnies. Honestly, I think the FA cap should apply to all tourneys. They're going to have to cap FA eventually and the easiest way to do it is via Steamroller. But I don't want to derail this whole thread with another flame war over spam lists. The ADR roster only rotates every 6 months as I recall. Even if it were twice as frequent, $20 every 3 months is pennies compared to MTG in Standard. And it wouldn't even be that much, as some casters are more likely to spend more time in the roster. So it's not about the players then, is it? Also I agree with Pangurban on the ADR restriction, it just makes it more difficult for newbies - requiring then to buy specific casters isn't very 'casual'. Honestly, I think minimum structure is the way to go. Still have game timers for the unfortunate reality of logistics, but let people just play what they want. Give a list of achievements to be scored during games and use that to determine standings at the end of the day instead of just straight wins. Examples: Use all power attacks in a single game, kill 10+ models in a turn, table your opponent, lose no warjacks, kill the enemy caster with yours, play a fully painted list, etc. |
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Post by pangurban on Apr 13, 2017 15:49:13 GMT
This. FA: U to FA: 3 is probably not that big a deal, but it still restricts lists somewhat and casual players may not have extensive enough collections to easily retool lists. And the ADR restriction really doesn't lower the barrier to entry; arguably it does the opposite. If I want an event to be more casual, I just say so when I announce it. That usually suffices to tell the better players to ease up a bit. I also waive entry fees and the prizes are pretty much symbolic, not objectively valuable. When you're first building a collection you are not going to have 15 gun bunnies. Honestly, I think the FA cap should apply to all tourneys. They're going to have to cap FA eventually and the easiest way to do it is via Steamroller. But I don't want to derail this whole thread with another flame war over spam lists. The ADR roster only rotates every 6 months as I recall. Even if it were twice as frequent, $20 every 3 months is pennies compared to MTG in Standard. And it wouldn't even be that much, as some casters are more likely to spend more time in the roster. Considering you buy gun bunnies in pairs, you might well have four or six. And depending on the caster you prefer, having a handful of the same jack doesn't have to be unusual. Regardless, being a casual player doesn't necessarily mean new and/or first building a collection. Most casual players I know buy just the models they need for a few lists they want to play. They have little interest in being faction completists, they just want to be able to put their list on the table on game day. If that list has 4-6-10-15 of the same model, that's what they're buying. And expect to use for a long, long time. As for ADR casters being cheap, that's not much of an argument. It means you have just 4 casters to choose from, whether you like them or not. It means you may not know how to play them. It means you may not have the right models to make a decent (not even optimal) list for them. It's a restriction no casual player I know has any affinity with, since they have no interest in existing ADR events. Basically, if by "casual" you mean "players just have to put something together with what they have and/or can and are willing to buy" without a great deal of regard to what they enjoy putting on the table because hey, it's casual so it's ok if you don't have a really good list - then this works. That's not what I understand casual to be though. I'm not trying to diss you or anything, I just don't see anything in these special rules that makes the event casual for me or any casual player I know (other than the no painting reqs, but those are nothing special for this kind of thing). Casual for us means no stress, no pressure, no stakes to be won, just a bit of fun. Really only one step up from getting into a pickup game on a weekday evening. |
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Post by vakruz on Apr 18, 2017 16:44:30 GMT
I like any idea that isn't 75 point steamroller garbage, the people i drive to play with, at great length mind you, is all that they play. And it gets HELLA boring seeing the same people play the same 75 point lists months in a row, that are just net list trash with 0 creativity. The 50 point level is actually very fun, and makes people think a bit, heaven forbid on that. Id be all for this.
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Post by Korianneder on Apr 19, 2017 12:43:17 GMT
This. FA: U to FA: 3 is probably not that big a deal, but it still restricts lists somewhat and casual players may not have extensive enough collections to easily retool lists. And the ADR restriction really doesn't lower the barrier to entry; arguably it does the opposite. If I want an event to be more casual, I just say so when I announce it. That usually suffices to tell the better players to ease up a bit. I also waive entry fees and the prizes are pretty much symbolic, not objectively valuable. When you're first building a collection you are not going to have 15 gun bunnies. Honestly, I think the FA cap should apply to all tourneys. They're going to have to cap FA eventually and the easiest way to do it is via Steamroller. But I don't want to derail this whole thread with another flame war over spam lists. The ADR roster only rotates every 6 months as I recall. Even if it were twice as frequent, $20 every 3 months is pennies compared to MTG in Standard. And it wouldn't even be that much, as some casters are more likely to spend more time in the roster. Honestly it sounds more like you hate the current field allowance rules and the quantity of warcasters available in each faction, so you made up this 'casual' thing to force your views on a tournament. Nothing about what you've created says casual to me. When I first started this game I played Cygnar and picked up Haley2. Not because she was good or anything, but because she was literally the only warcaster my local game store had in stock. Forcing people to change lists to suit your views is not casual. If you want to focus more on a casual event, which is cool, then you want something much less restricted. Create something that doesn't focus on victory. Something that takes course over a week or two would also be nice because then you don't have to use timed events. Make something fluffy with a big map that people fight over. Steam rollers is also probably not the format you'd want to use. You could come up with much more captivating scenarios for people who just want to have a good time. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 19, 2017 13:47:17 GMT
I could sit here and argue point and counter-point for a week, but that would be pointless. Maybe I didn't think this whole thing through well enough, but since almost everyone hates it, and for different reasons, and very few people are willing to even give me the benefit of the doubt, I think it's safe to say this isn't going to work at all. The point of asking was to gauge potential interest. There isn't interest, so it's not viable. Fine. It wasn't important anyway, so just forget it.
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